Rule Book changes.Pre68 All Powers 4-Stroke,

[Bamford#69]

Acceptable machines for Pre 65;
Triumph; All  EXCEPT  T140,TSS,T150,T160 and BSA unit single derivatives (TR5MX)
My Triumph TR5T Adventurer twin, 1973/74, is nearly finished , I know its legal for Pre 65, but not for Pre 70,but is for Pre 75, will it be acceptable for Pre68 unit construction All Powers 4-stroke ,?
Will 1968,69 70 BSA Victors be acceptable, for this Pre 68 class also,
Please read the 08 GCR's
When the scrutineers are presented with this anomaly how will they react?
Mark,Dave Geoff Peter,what are your thoughts?

[GMC]

Sorry Jikov, I don't know the older bikes that well but you have confused me with your question. The bike is eligable for pre 65 & pre 75 but not pre 70?
Was this a typo? I don't have a 08 book yet. It sure sounds odd.

[Bamford#69]

GMC,
The list of acceptable machines 1965-1970 18.7.4.1;
Triumph;T100,and all Pre 70 models,

[firko]

Jikov...I'm confused as well. If your TR5T Triumph is a '73/74 model it most definitely isn't legal for pre 65 or pre 70.
The TR5T is basically a BSA B50 with a 500 unit construction Triumph engine so what goes for the B50 goes for the Trumpy. As the B50 BSA fits into pre 75, that also the right class for the TR5T. It's also ineligible for pre 68 as the first TR5T wasn't released until 1972.

[Bamford#69]

GMC,
Confusing isn't it ,
who ever drafted the list of acceptable machines messed up
Rule 18.7.2.1,
List of acceptable machines ;
Triumph ,All EXCEPT,T140,TSS,T150,T160 and BSA SINGLE derivatives,
IE;all triumphs except those above

[Bamford#69]

Sorry Mark
The point I am trying to make is that the GCR's are not without errors or ambiguity,

[firko]

Yep that's a definite one that needs a fix up. It wouldn't have worked at a race meeting though. The commonsense rule would have to take precedence. Funny, in the 20 years of the eligibility criteria being in the book that's the first time that one's been bought to my attention.

My situation is also  out there in the ozone. I'm building a '63 Ducati 350 engine fitted to a pre 65 Hindall frame. Ducatis aren't mentioned in the list and Hindall frames aren't mentioned in the Specials :Table of machines. I have documented proof of all of the parts (ceriani forks/Rickman hubs) being available prior to 1965 so even though my bike isn't listed in the book, it should breeze through any eligibility inspection.

 That's why despite what the book says, you should show published proof that your bike fits into a specific era. That's where the TR5T would get snagged up in its quest for pre 65/pre68/pre70 stardom.

[Bamford#69]

Now what about 68 69 70 ,BSA 441 Victors in the pre 68 class,?

[firko]

Without having the book handy (where is that bugger??) I don't know what it says in there now but in my 2005 book it allows them in pre 70 and assuming that square barrel B44s came out in 1967 so they should be allowed in pre 68. The round barrel version is already in pre 68 but I would like to see it in pre 65 now. All my opinion of course.

[Bamford#69]

there is no discription for eligible machines, only a class (18.2.2.1) page 151 ,152
d) Pre-1968 unit construction All Powers 4 stroke

[Freakshow]

unless you used the tm250m are ok rule cause my track does,  rule ?   

I think the whole book needs revamping, is it truly keeping pace with the sport ?  is it just being photocopied year in year out or is there a body from VMX in there covering the loose ends and evolving the topics ?   

There are grey areas out there including known specials, and skew to cover MX variants, but to many scutinneers if its not in the book your asking for a personal comment or desicion whether its right or wrong, it could be made a little clearer for all,  importantly those wishing to enter the sport, causing alot less pain or financial embarrassment or both   

it would seem it was a great place to start back in the day it was commishend but it does need restructuring and tuning as more questions need answering.

and just cause im opinionated and can, this is my 1,000 post 

[GMC]

I can see the problem here now & it stems from your interpretation of the word "all"
Acceptable machines for Pre 65;
Triumph; All  EXCEPT  T140,TSS,T150,T160 and BSA unit single derivatives (TR5MX)
The "all" here would refer to all pre 65 Triumph's plus the models listed, not all Triumph's ever made.
It is assumed that the "all" is controlled under the pre65 heading

I know stuff all about Triumph's but I assume the T140,TSS,T150,T160 were produced before & after the cutoff date & so these particular models were listed because they were flow on models

So no you can't buy an 08 triumph & ride it in the pre65 class.

[YSS]

T 140 started at 72
T 150+160  at  1969  according to my speclist for shocks and fork springs .

[Bamford#69]

So do they allow the use of all T120 motors ie; up to 1971?
 if they meant to only allow motors made in the correct time period why didn't they just say;
Triumph 650 motors before. eng#  DU13375
 isn't it as simple as that?
why can't there be a cut off engine /frame # for all age based classes of bikes
(yes I know every Honda and Husky thats chucked a chain doesn't have one)
 

[Bamford#69]

one more time ,
what about 68 69 70 BSA Victors in the pre 68 class?