Clearing my name and my bike

[motomaniac]

From all the Pre 78 Maico's I have seen none of them have the original 77 forks.

Brad did not win because he has a few extra mm's of travel that he could not use, he won because he is fast just like Glen Bell.

Are Brad's post 77 forks legal. They can only be legal I understand if they were a follow over from the prievious year.
The 78 had a few modifications to the 77 so I will let the scrutineers of our sport judge. How can one tell what year a pair of forks were made. Like Glen Bell's bike. If they were fitted with WP's the WP's have the year stamped into the top of them. How hard would it be to grind that stamp off, how hard would it be then to date the forks while on the line.

Ji

You are off on Belly's bike mate .The forks are Simons not WP and are legal.
78Maicos had the same basic forks as the later 77's but with more travel and air caps.79 were longer again.
77 are a quarter inch over the limit ,78 would be 1" over.
Rm 125 B and C model are also athe same basic fork.Both had aircaps but the 78 had extended ones , both have the same travel , both are 38mm etc.
Same as Brad would have won his class anyway the pre78 125 results would have also been the same.

[Ji Gantor]

How am I off on Bellys bike I said
"Like Glen Bell's bike. If they were fitted with WP's"
I did not say his bike was fitted with WP's I know his bike was fitted with Simon's.
I was just supposing.

Ji

[Ji Gantor]

"78Maicos had the same basic forks as the later 77's but with more travel and air caps."

If they have these changes does that not make them out side the Pre78 class?

Ji

[motomaniac]

How am I off on Bellys bike I said
"Like Glen Bell's bike. If they were fitted with WP's"
I did not say his bike was fitted with WP's I know his bike was fitted with Simon's.
I was just supposing.

Ji

Yes sorry.

[motomaniac]

"78Maicos had the same basic forks as the later 77's but with more travel and air caps."

If they have these changes does that not make them out side the Pre78 class?

Ji

Yes thats my opinion also. Because of the travel not because of the aircaps ,the aircaps were available for 77's aftermarket . Longer travel kits also of course by FOX for eg. but the GCR's state 38mm diam and no more than 9" .The Gcr's dont say any thing about aircaps only that the class reflects the period.So I don't see a problem there .

[motomaniac]

I have a creeping feeling that the guys who are winning generally could do it whether they had 9" of suspension or bloody 4" .... so a few fractions here or there I don't think was ever the point of the GCRs, more that these pre 78 bikes need love to and if they have a competitive class then people will take the time to preserve then.

Its really not in the spirit of the GCRs to send people packing if their brake rod is in a slightly different position.

I agree

[Ji Gantor]

I pose the question to all.
How much time can you save per lap at the nationals track by having longer travel forks.

The comparison is say Pre 75 to Pre 78.
The difference is 7 inches to 9 inches.

I don't know, may be 10 seconds how about 5 seconds.

Well Brad's best lap time on his Pre 75 263 bike was 2:43,
Brad's best lap time on his Pre 78 263 bike was 2:41.

So if we compare Brad using the two different class forks we find the difference per lap is only 2 seconds. Not much of an advantage. This time saving could be the engine or the gear ratios. As I said Brad won because he is fast just like Glen Bell. Glen was stuck in second gear for one of his races and still won.

Ji

[Nathan S]

I see your point, but be careful of comparing lap times between races, Ji - each morning, the track was wet and muddy (and slow), and by the afternoon it had dried out (and was a lot faster).
There are also variables caused by how hard the leaders were pushed - I'm sure that both Bell and Burt could have carved big chunks off their best lap times if anyone had seriously challenged for the lead.

Question: If there's only two seconds per lap between the eras, why do we bother having era racing at all?

[Ji Gantor]

Nathan you are correct the track was slower in the morning but the best lap times were recorded when the track was at its best. Yes I agree that a good rider can turn up the wick when needed but Brad is not in the same class as Glen (No affence Brad).

Ji

[motomaniac]

Ji whats the point? Its track dependant. On a smooth track often a lower travel bike will corner better and be faster overall but if for instance the Nats are at Manjimump (and assuming that it gets rough ) in 2 years a 9" travel 78 model bike will be alot slower than a full 12" travel evo bike .
Same goes for capacity sometimes a 125 is better than a bigger bike depending on the nature of the track.

[Ji Gantor]

Of course it is track dependant I totally agree.
But as a scientific experiment lets take a look at the Conondale track for instance.

Simon Healy who was fourth in the Pre 85 263 class clocked a best time of 2.39.
I selected Simon because he would be more in Brad's class.
Simon only bettered Brads Pre 75 263 time by 4 seconds with his KX500.

The Pre 85 263 class posted the best lap times of the Nationals.

Ji

[Nathan S]

It really surprised me how little difference there is in lap times from pre-70 to pre-85, at least at the pointy end of the fields. It certainly makes all of those "...And there he was on an old Ag bike, riding around a bunch of guys on modern 450s!" stories a lot more believeable - a good rider on an old bike can still be remarkably quick.
What's more intersting (and possibly more significant) is looking at the mid-pack guys - based on my best lap on the pre-70 bike, I would not have been disgraced if I'd ridden it in the pre-78 field, for example. And yet it would have put me 'nowhere' in the pre-75 125s.

Erm, what were we talking about again? 

[090]

I don't think the fact that how fast i was on any particular bike should be part of an eligibility issue at all. Such as  'he could have won on a pre 75 bike'.Thats just not what vmx racing is about. Nor is it a legitimate excuse for having incorrect parts on your bike. My main rant has always been bikes should ride in there era, period. I also think that a bike should represent itself as close to when it came out of the factory. As close as humanly possible. The exceptions are, period aftermarket parts and parts that are allowed as per rules that are set (e.g. handlebars, new shocks etc).
also through my rants i have found out that my forks are incorrect ( wish i had of found out in a different way! ). My forks are not good enough. I want to comply ( they have 78 staunchings and air caps).
If we don't keep our bikes as close to the way they came from the factory, they would end up all hot rods riding where ever they want to. Thats a heap of all in races.
Also when talking about era racing, there are always examples of exceptions to the rule. Such as 84 Huskys blah blah. IMO that bike (guy) has the choice of which class he can ride. From what i can gather the chance of winning lotto might be better than actually seeing one at a race day ( I pulled that out of my arse and am probably be wrong).

[Curly3]

A lot depends on the nut on the handlebars.
How long is a piece of string.

[paul]

brad do the air caps screw in or   sir clips ? that another difference!