TS 185 74 model

[bandit1250]

Hi all.
Is a TS 185 74 model a  suitable bike for pre 75 dirt track. I'm not sure hence the question.

Anthony

[DR]

I know what most people will say and that is, NO. Simply because it's a 185 (albeit trailbike 185) competing in a 250 class.

Now here's what I reckon, Dare to be different, if you think it may make a decent dirt track bike then why not try it. The disadvange mentioned above is slightly compensated by the 185 weighing less but...

you'd need to do some serious work if you wished it to be competitive. If you simply want a bike to ride and have a go on then by all means try it! There have been successfull TS185 racers over the years and below is such an example. Raced  by Californian Suzuki test rider of the day Willie Hardin it did pick up wins in the 250 class. The bottom pic at Perris Raceway in 1971

[TT5 Matt]

i was at nepean dirt track 2 w/ends ago and saw a ts185 punched out 211cc via a rm250b piston [3mm overbore] with a barrel spacer plate and rms125 type inlet adaptor plate and it was very competive against the 250's bike number 172 and i think the dude was called jens,theres alot of hidden ponnies in these motor waiting to be released

[DR]

Jens eh Matt now if you really want to get a TS185 competitive then you talk to Mr Jens Olsen as his reputation preceeds him

[Lozza]

I don't think Jens was telling you the full story, a RM 250 has a piston with an 18mm pin bore a TS 185 a 16mm bore? What ever ponies are hidden in there they will fall over at the gearbox, which has a diabolical set of ratio's(that's just for starters).This all depends on time and money, and how much of both you have to throw it the project.A TS 250 engine would be a much better starting point.
 

[LWC82PE]

saw a ts185 punched out 211cc via a rm250b piston [3mm overbore] with a barrel spacer plate and rms125 type inlet adaptor plate

thankyou for that, i have been looking for a way to get my 185 to 200cc and was looking for a 67mm piston to use. but yeah how does he get around the different pin diameter?

[DR]

TM ratio's slip into the 185 gearbox but that's not the main issue The issue is the gear that is pressed onto the countershaft will not handle the extra ponies and it'll spin on the shaft. People have been know to weld them and do all sorts of things to stop this happening but it still remains an achilies heel.

I assume the spacer plate under the barrel on Jens bike is not because of the piston but because of the rod he used. No doubt it's stroked as well as bored is my guess

[Lozza]

A rod swap would be the easist way to run the 250 piston. The plate could just be because of the compression height of the piston. There is a process to 'weld'(but it's a bit more complex than that) the gear onto a shaft to stop this happening.

[firko]

Jens eh Matt  now if you really want to get a TS185 competitive then you talk to Mr Jens Olsen as his reputation preceeds him

That little TS185 of Jens Olsens is a bloody rocket. He raced it seriously back in the day and won a lot of races on shorter tracks. Interestingly Jens had the engine in a '74 KX125 frame but has recently gone back to the Suzuki 185 frame because he reckons it handles better. Nobody knows these pea shooters better than Jens.

[cyclegod]

There is a process to 'weld'(but it's a bit more complex than that) the gear onto a shaft to stop this happening.

What's this process?  I am putting all new parts into my TM-S 185 engine and want to avoid the second gear problem.

[Freakshow]

Doc thats a nice, pic, love the colour scheme, only TS i have seen i like......  nice pic and a nice looking bike tooooooo.

[Lozza]

I process where the shaft is softened, machined down, new gear cut, then bonded the shaft and then heat treated again to >62Rc. The trick is the 'welding' process is not affected by the heat treatment, which would otherwise make the area very brittle. However if there is not 6mm from the shaft OD to the root of the tooth this process can't be used.

[LWC82PE]

im pretty sure Lozza is right. when i looked into using the 67mm RM/PE250 piston, im sure i remember a few mm differences in the gudgeon pin heights which would require a spacer under the barrel.

If anyone can tell me what rod is a direct replacement for the TS185/PE175 rod that will allow me to use the RM/PE piston which has 18mm pin i will do it for sure, but only if i can get another crank as i have already got a new Pro X rod on my current crank and dont want to change that.

I am already at 195cc with +2mm but i figure another 1mm (.50 each side of the bore) shoul still be ok and the transfers wont get too close to the exhaust port.

Ive just been searching for a 67mm piston that has no port holes or fancy skirt shape that i could use. I looked at KDX175 and DT200 and bikes like that.

[DR]

Freaky I like the bike too the bike was built using the kit parts less the airbox which was substituted for a pod. Without any other 'major' mods it did win but admitedly the rider was no slouch either. I didn't ask what class and maybe it was something like a sub 200cc sportsman class but in '71 I'd assume it would have been thrown in with the full blown 250's I tellya what though, no matter what they are laced onto, I love the look of Akront mudcatchers

[TT5 Matt]

oh no ive opened up another large 185 can of worms!! jens didnt mention a rod change but i suppose he's got to keep some things secret

with the 2nd gear drama why didnt suzuki spline or key the shaft/gear to take the extra grunt?

Firko   Jens bike was running a kawaski chassis with a cush drive hub