So What's Wrong With It?

[evo550]

Banshy,
Aren't they the Husky ones (cr500) ?
I think the potential age of the forks might be the issue.
Where did you get the 4054 stickers from, I'm rebuilding a set atm.
Are the calipers brembo?
Looks great no matter when they where made.

[FireKwaka]

Thanks very much for your offer Bahnsy, that is very generous of you. Your KX is one fine example it would be good to see it circulating. Competing in these Nationals (with a class for pre 84's and competing with legends) is something I have dreamed of since I started developing my KX 7yrs ago. I have had to work with a very limited budget so it has taken a long time and a lot of fabrication to come up with a competitive bike, it may not be very original but as long as I can race the sucker I'm happy. To me thats the joy of this VMX thing you can race on a low budget. I was #8 at CD6.
  I currently run a modified top linkage with some sort of Honda shock (83 XR I think) mounted upside down. I have a mate seeing if he can replace the leaking seal at the moment, but if it isn't repairable I have another standard top linkage so if I get stuck your offer would be very much appreciated.

[Nathan S]

Interesting comment made by your mate Bahnsy.
If it makes you feel any better, at CD6 I saw a bike with "Pre-85" on the sideplates, and a clearly non-carry-over 85 model front disc brake on it...

My knowledge of such things is limited, but I can't see anything wrong with your bike as a pre-85 racer.

[evo550]

......on a side note, I have a strange recollection of a conversation with someone about Rad's rebuilding the rear shocks with  steel bodies.
Might be worth a phone call.

[oldyzman]

NICE GREEN MACHINE in any case!

OLDYZMAN

[BAHNZY]

FireKwaka,
No stress let me know what you want to do, remembering that internal freight (Aus Post) will be 5 days depending on your location. Currently the std Kawi shock is set up for a 95 kg rider, can swap the spring out for the original 83 KX500 spring if i can find it. Just let me know.

EVO550,
Q: Aren't they the Husky ones (cr500) ?
A: The Husky set that i have were originally destined for the KX5, they have been put aside for the 84 RM125. The Husky forks are stamped with HVA5 and 48-86 on the top cap. They are exactly the same configuration as the units in the KX5 with the only differnece being the outer body length and fork stroke. When i did the sums between the two i figured that the Honda units were a much better match to the original Kawasaki dimension/geometry than the Husky units.

Q: I think the potential age of the forks might be the issue.
A: I wrestled with this for a while and applied the interpretation of;
18.7.14.4 All components will be of the period the machine was manufactured.
As the forks are the same construction as a 1984 KTM MXC500 then they would be deemed to be of the same period.
The front wheel is orignal, the disc original and the caliper from an 84 Honda so i see it as all being components and technology that was avalaible before 31st December 1984. Essentially you could have built that same front end in 1984, just with a slightly different brake caliper mount, say something like the works 82 SR500 with the front axle hinge system.
Regarding 18.7.14.3 Modifications using later equipment are not allowed.
My interpretation of this is that you cant use later OEM equipment. As the forks are not OEM then you have to go to 18.7.14.4

Q: Where did you get the 4054 stickers from, I'm rebuilding a set atm.
A: The forks came with AMA Pro Racing stickers and the original Supplied By White Brothers "White Power" stickers. They were re-produced by NINETWODECALS in Queensland. I will track down his number and post it up here. Basically i re-created the arwork in Corell, sent it to him and he printed them up. He will will have them all on file so it would be just a matter of hitting the print button for some more. All the hard work has been done.

Q: Are the calipers brembo?
A: The unit on the KX5 is a Nissin. The RM125 will have a Brembo, same as the 86 Husky.

Bahnsy

[firko]

Based on what you've written I reckon there'd be no problems Bahnsy. It'd probably be wise to bring proof that all of the components fit within the criteria just in case someone gets a little picky. It's one of lifes little pleasures showing these whingers up as the wankers they are.

[suzuki43]

Bahnsy,Try and block out thosr c**k heads mate.Its those type of small minded uneducated tossers that drive people away from the sport.Nice bike mate.

[maicostu]

Barnsy
         83/84 kawasaki,s didnt have up side down forks
I agree thats its not pre 85 legal, if you had usd simons forks that would be different
You know its not right.

Stu

[paul]

straight to the point there stu ,so that your stance as a  ma  representative
 that how you would vote ?
NEXT PROBLEM

[paul]

CAN WE HAVE A JUDGE MENT ON THE FOOT PEG SPINGS WHILE YOU ARE AT IT ,MIGHT SAVE SOME PEOPLE LOTSA PETROL AND TIME 

[maicostu]

springs Yes

[bigk]

My take on it is that if the forks were indeed from an 84 KTM with the drum brake, then it would be legal. The disc caliper hanger and the actual year of the forks are the sticking point IMO, although I suppose you could have made the caliper hanger to suit the KTM forks in 1984.
Going on Bahnsy's rationale that the forks are legal, being of the same or similar basic design as '84, even though they are from '85 or '86, that would then make the twin shock KX500 in another thread EVO legal if it had a drum brake front. Then it would meet the basic no linkage, no disc brakes, no water cooling guide lines even though the engine is from a later model. After all it's just a basic old air cooled engine design which has existed forever. BUTwe all know what would happen if it were presented to race EVO, and would be deafened by the cry foul. I don't really care and believe the more bikes on the track, the better. Maybe there should classes to cater for these such bikes, without the BS, as long as they meet the basic criteria. EVO ultimate or pre '85 super or so on. Wouldn't we see some trick bikes then.
Cheers,
K

[Nathan S]

Barnsy
         83/84 kawasaki,s didnt have up side down forks
I agree thats its not pre 85 legal, if you had usd simons forks that would be different
You know its not right.

Stu

Interesting.

As far as I can see, the whole debate comes down to two points, which have been touched upon in this thread, but not directly addressed:

1. Could you buy a set of WP4054s before 1985, with that caliper mount on it (most likely as an after-market part intended for a Honda)?

2. Are the 85/86 build 4054s visually and operationally the same as the pre-85 build 4054s?

If you can get a Yes to both quesitions, then its a no-brainer: The bike is legal as a pre-85 race bike.

I don't understand why people confuse the "carry-over" rule so much. If it looks and operates the same as a part that was made in the correct era, then its treated the same as the part from the correct era. (Edit: That last statement is a general one, not specifically related to this thread).


Second edit: Even if the answer(s) is/are No, there's still room for argument - it just won't be so clear-cut.

[firko]

The 'problem' seems to be solvable if Bahnsy can prove without doubt that those particular WP4054 forks were available in 1984. If he can prove that, it's irrelevent whether Kawasakis came with USD forks or not.