YAMAHA 73 A, 74 B 79 F MODEL

[albrid-3]

he is chasing yz 250 models only.

[MX125B]

Are you chasing YZ's or MX's?  YZs are as rare as hens teeth and also as expensive.  In Australia (different in the US believe it or not) There was the 73 YZA and then the 74YZ B - 125s, 250s and 360s (not 400s first 400 YZ was 76).  Depends upon the market but a YZ360B somewhere around $10K (obviously depending upon condition) as there were only around 1100 made worldwide.  I think (but coudl be wrong here) the MX400B is actually a 76 model and therefore not eligible for pre 75 but the YZ A and Bs are (with travel restrictors in the Bs).

Hope that helps  

Rossco

Hi there,

Hi there, the MX400B was actually a 1975 model as was all the MX B's which were white. in 1976 the MX range was dropped, and they all became YZ C  ie YZ400C Yellow with air forks. ( The white YZ125C was actually introduced in 1974) In 1976 the YZ125 was called an X  ie YZ125X it was yellow with the airforks ( canisters on top of forks) A bit confusing but they went from yellow to white and back a few times.

Cheers

[Nathan S]

... ( The white YZ125C was actually introduced in 1974) In 1976 the YZ125 was called an X  ...

I assume that was a typo? YZ125C /= 1974.

Everything I've read has said that the YZ125C was really a 1975.5 model - it should have been the 1975 YZ125B, but was released too late - so they did the half-asred thing and tried to pretend that it was a 76 model, only to cause themselves naming dramas when they brought out the real 1976 model (which is, as you say, the 125X).

If the 125C was pre-75 legal, it would dominate the class even more spectacularly than the Elsinores currently do - its an interesting thought.

[JohnnyO]

The YZ125c was a '75 model and i think it was rushed into production in '75 instead of '76 to battle the long travel Suzuki RM125M and S models. The '75 250 and 400 were called an MX instead of YZ.

[Nathan S]

The way I look at it, the MX-As and MX-Bs were Yamahas 'real' production bikes, while the YZ-As and YZ-Bs were the super trick, limited production bikes that were Yamaha's "image leaders" - as cool as the early YZs are, they were never the commonly available bike like the MXes and the YZ-Cs were.
In reality, the YZ-Cs were actually the successor to the MX-Bs, and the original YZ concept was quitely put to rest. Using the YZ name for the bikes that otherwise would have been called MX-Cs was obviously a brilliant marketing move.
So for 1976 the YZ and MX lines were combined into a mass-market YZs - better than the old MXes, less expensive than the old YZs, and no difficult questions on the showroom floor along the lines of "Why can I only buy the second-best motocross bike that Yamaha makes?"...

The other thing to look at is the release dates for the various bikes. The YZ250B came significantly before the MX250B, which came before the YZ250C. If you look at a YZ125C, and compare it to a YZ250B, MX250B and a YZ250C, its clear that the 125C 'should' have been the little brother to the 1975 MX250B - it shares the MX250Bs paint, forks, and styling, which are the main things that distinguish an MX-B from a YZ-C.
When you add the YZ125X into the equation, it further shows that the YZ125C really wasn't part of the "C" model line-up at all.

While history has (mostly-correctly) revised the YZ125C to be a 1975 model, it was never marketed as a 1975 model. And remember that the Yanks could buy white tanked YZ125As that were called YZ125Bs, in late 1974/early 1975.

[Rossvickicampbell]

love this sort of fact finding.  Nathan my understanding, and I am interested because I have one, was that the YZBs (lets say 250 and 360 to not cloud the issue) were available in Australia before (well before actually) the end of 74 and hence pre 75 legal - but only made it to the States early 75 - hence the confusion - so there is more to it than documentation?

  Correct?

Cheers

Rossco

[JohnnyO]

The YZ125c was always a 1975 model. It was available to and raced by the general public through '75 and raced against the CR125m1 and RM125M and RM125S, all '75 models. ADB mag vol.1 no.1 has a comparison test between the RM125m('75) and the YZ125c and the same mag has a test on the MX250b('75).
The YZ250B and 360B models were available just after mid '74 and are a '74 model. I have a race program from a national motocross in sept '74 with a photo ad of the B models available in Yamaha dealers at that time and several B model YZ's were raced that day. 

[Nathan S]

The YZ125c was always a 1975 model. It was available to and raced by the general public through '75 and raced against the CR125m1 and RM125M and RM125S, all '75 models. ADB mag vol.1 no.1 has a comparison test between the RM125m('75) and the YZ125c and the same mag has a test on the MX250b('75).
The YZ250B and 360B models were available just after mid '74 and are a '74 model. I have a race program from a national motocross in sept '74 with a photo ad of the B models available in Yamaha dealers at that time and several B model YZ's were raced that day. 

I think that we're about to descend into trainspotting, because we clearly agree on the basics... Like Rossco, I really enjoy this sort of discussion.

I believe that the YZ125C wasn't released at the start of 1975 - for a 75 model, it came late in the year, certainly after the other manufacturers (hence my description of it being a 1975.5 model).
This also explains the whacky C prefix on a 1975 model bike - its much better marketing to release next year's bike early, than this year's bike late, even if its the same bike released at the same time...
I'd be interested to see any official material that calls the YZ125C a 1975 model (even though it was clearly supposed to be a 1975 model). Certainly the parts catalogues at Yamaha-motor.com show both the 125C and 125X as being 76 models (and neither as 75 models).
FWIW, I have a YZ125C sales brochure, and it has no dates on it.

WRT the YZ250/360Bs, Yes.
Its arguable whether they were intended as a 1974 model bike, given their limited production run and 'exotica' status, but the reasons you've both given are why they're allowed in pre-75.

As a further diversion from the original topic, given that the "1974.5" Maicos are allowed to race in pre-75, then I see no reason why the YZ-Bs shouldn't also be allowed. Neither were strictly designated as being 1974.0 models, if you wished to be pedantic.

[DJRacing]

I think on this subject you have to go back even further and look at the YZ-A(250/360) which was available mid '73 (May??).
The YZ125A was only available at the start of '74, which was just before the YZ250/360B was released.
At the end of 1974 the YZ125C was released for the 1975 year, and instead of getting the 'B' designation was given the 'C' designation because the thoughts at the time would be that a new model  YZ250/360 bikes would be released for the 1975 year, but none were.
For the 1975 year the YZ's that raced were the YZ125C; YZ250B and the YZ360B.
The following year (1976) saw the the new model YZ's with the air cannisters on top of the forks. The big bikes, YZ250 and YZ400 were designated 'C' models but the YZ125 had to be called the 'X' model since their had already been a 'C' model and to  bring the model designations back inline for the following year (1977) of the 'D' models.

[JohnnyO]

DJ don't forget the '75 model MX250b and MX400b were the production motocrossers alongside the YZ125c..  Confusing aint it. Most of the aussie A graders raced the MX400b in '75 instead of the more fragile harder to ride YZ360b.

[DJRacing]

DJ don't forget the '75 model MX250b and MX400b were the production motocrossers alongside the YZ125c..  Confusing aint it. Most of the aussie A graders raced the MX400b in '75 instead of the more fragile harder to ride YZ360b.

To true Johnny O' and that makes it even more clearer that the YZ125C should have been designated the 'B' model and that their wasnt a YZ250/360/400 made for 1975, otherwise the Yammie riders would've been racing them, even if you say they were fragile and harder to ride 

[basil44]

This will throw a spanner in the works, I started work in Dec 74 for Whites Yamaha in Cuba St ,Wellington.They where the Yamaha importers for NZ and had YZ125Cs for sale then.My delemer then was to buy a YZ125C or DT250B , as I could ride the DT to work it won out (they where the same price from memory about $1080.00).Brent Js brother was forman at Whites and might be able to find out more info.We always USE to get bikes downunder before anyone else because we could race em and brake em (Northern Hemisphere covered in snow)sooner which gave the factories time to try and rectify any problems that occured. Suzuki and Yamaha must have been very confused in 74,75 and 76 as they had so many models -TM125 250 400 (74,75) RM125M,S,A ,RM250,370As, RH250(74),RN400(74), RH250(75) AND then theres Yamaha -MX125,250,360As, YZ125,250,360As, MX125, 250 400Bs, YZ125,250,360Bs,YZ125C phaark my heads spinning. Was it just greed? or the left hand not talking to the right hand.Remember 1975 was the first year for the 125 World Championship (Suzuki won the first 10 ,75 to 84 straight ) so they where all out to get the jump on one another. In 2 years they went from selling shit to selling race winning bikes which took the other manufactures years to catch up.They must have made a lot of money in those years.Interesting note that we got the YZs way before the Yanks and they never got the RHs and RNs ,where we (AUST, NZ ) just better at MX or where they just not up to it yet?.Cheers John.

[TM BILL]

The way I look at it, the MX-As and MX-Bs were Yamahas 'real' production bikes, while the YZ-As and YZ-Bs were the super trick, limited production bikes that were Yamaha's "image leaders" - as cool as the early YZs are, they were never the commonly available bike like the MXes and the YZ-Cs were.
In reality, the YZ-Cs were actually the successor to the MX-Bs, and the original YZ concept was quitely put to rest. Using the YZ name for the bikes that otherwise would have been called MX-Cs was obviously a brilliant marketing move.
So for 1976 the YZ and MX lines were combined into a mass-market YZs - better than the old MXes, less expensive than the old YZs, and no difficult questions on the showroom floor along the lines of "Why can I only buy the second-best motocross bike that Yamaha makes?"...

The other thing to look at is the release dates for the various bikes. The YZ250B came significantly before the MX250B, which came before the YZ250C. If you look at a YZ125C, and compare it to a YZ250B, MX250B and a YZ250C, its clear that the 125C 'should' have been the little brother to the 1975 MX250B - it shares the MX250Bs paint, forks, and styling, which are the main things that distinguish an MX-B from a YZ-C.
When you add the YZ125X into the equation, it further shows that the YZ125C really wasn't part of the "C" model line-up at all.

While history has (mostly-correctly) revised the YZ125C to be a 1975 model, it was never marketed as a 1975 model. And remember that the Yanks could buy white tanked YZ125As that were called YZ125Bs, in late 1974/early 1975.

So where does the MX 125C fit in ?

[DJRacing]

The MX125C is 1976 and it got the motor from the YZ125C. It was basically a twin shocked YZ125C.

[oldyzman]

From what basil said that should mean that the yz125c should be pre 75 legal....
Cat in the pigeon stuff isn't it
Brett