Author Topic: 1980 250 - Reason for clutch drag?  (Read 3620 times)

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Offline Husabergpete

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1980 250 - Reason for clutch drag?
« on: February 23, 2009, 12:51:04 pm »
Gents,

Can you help with a fix for a dragging clutch? It almost disengages fully but wants to creep a bit. Lever at the bars has the usual 3 to 4mm free play. Have installed a new clutch bearing unit which has the original disengaging arm fitted.

Ta Pete


KTM 250 1980,  Maico 250 AW 1977, Husqvarna CR 430 1981, , CZ 250 1973 and a 550 Husaberg

Offline evo550

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Re: 1980 250 - Reason for clutch drag?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 03:03:33 pm »
Pete,
What condition are the "fingers" on the basket in?
If you find that it has notches where the plates sit this can prevent the plates from disengaging properly.
Something like this

 http://www.rekluse.com/images/notched_basket.jpg

oz555ktm

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Re: 1980 250 - Reason for clutch drag?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 04:12:56 pm »

Evo550 is spot on to the fault .

Check the basket and file out when filing you do two at one time .

you file across the basket .must keep the right angal on the basket.

and keep all fingers the same size.

When placeing the steel into the Basket Look for the sharp edge on the steel plate .
This must face out.

and use Dextron trans Oil in the Gear Box .

More Info you can call Me 0411.598.818
To hard from me to Type and Spell all of this .

Offline Husabergpete

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Re: 1980 250 - Reason for clutch drag?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2009, 05:52:40 pm »
Gents, Thanks for the info. As per your advice Denis I am emailing Alan Buehner re the Bearing Cover Kit I got from him to see if I need to do something different than with an original one.

Ta Pete
KTM 250 1980,  Maico 250 AW 1977, Husqvarna CR 430 1981, , CZ 250 1973 and a 550 Husaberg

Offline Husabergpete

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Re: 1980 250 - Reason for clutch drag?
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2009, 09:41:57 am »
Update - much head scratching and help from Adrian and Denis. Issue seems to be related to the aftermarket clutch bearing cover. It is about 1.5mm thicker than any one of the 4 original KTM covers I have checked. As a result it sets the clutch pulling arm 1.5mm further away from the clutch push rod. That combined with 29 years of natural wear leaves me with not enought pull. Very Bad thing that.

Note : the thickness of the gasket even makes a good deal of difference. The difference at the cable of 2-3mm results from changing a .6mm gasket to a .4mm gasket.

Will keep posted.

Pete
KTM 250 1980,  Maico 250 AW 1977, Husqvarna CR 430 1981, , CZ 250 1973 and a 550 Husaberg

Offline ozktm

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Re: 1980 250 - Reason for clutch drag?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2009, 05:26:41 am »
Here is some help from Bill Campbell from the Penton site :

I have owned a 74 and 76 250 since new. The 74 had the old square block brass? plates and the clutch began behaving badly after the first rebuild. I tried most of remedies. With gear oil the clutch would not disengage and I resorted to putting it into gear on the move. If I tried ATF the clutch would slip under load. I looked at the distance of the arm from the engine case but didn't really try too hard to change that.I put up with the dragging clutch for 30 years.
My 76 250 has the fibre plates with the swirl pattern. Not long after I purchased the bike I fried the clutch up a muddy hill. It starting grabbing and made it difficult to have any clutch control. I didn't make it to the top however the clutch action returned to normal the next time I rode the bike and has been that way ever since.So I have one bike with one type of clutch plate that was a complete pain and another that was and is as good as day one.
I rebuilt a 400 a couple of years ago that has the same plates as the 76 250 and that works very well. I have spent the last couple of year trolling ebay for some more fibre plates for my 74 250 but they are rare. I finally got a set and put them in the 74. Guess what? the bike now goes into gear whilst it is stationery and there is no slippage.Just like my other bikes.
My take on this once the crappy old rectangular plates get a little old they are less than useless and should be replaced with the swirl pattern fibre discs that in my experience are more forgiving.
Cheers Bill

PLus another bit for dial gauge setup :
Larry - Here's what I've done and it's helped a lot, on both KTM and Husky motors, which have almost identical clutch designs:

- If you don't have a good one, go buy a cheap dial indicator and if you can find a cheap one, a magnetic dial indicator holder with the fancy adjustable arms. Harbor Freight Tools sells adequate cheapos for about $10 each.
- Lay the bike on it's left side and pull the clutch cover off, oil will be drained off to the other side
- Pull in the clutch lever and velcro wrap/rubber band/bungie cord it off so it's pulled to "full disengaged"
- Set up the dial indicator so the tip is riding on the outside edge of the flat front of the pressure plate (pushed fully out due to the clutch pull) just outside the retaining nuts. I've stuck a bar clamp across the back of the cases in front of the carb, clamped the sides, and then stuck a woodshop spring clamp across the bar end sticking out to grab on to the dial indicator to hold it in about the right spot. A magnetic holder is easier.
- Then turn the motor over to see how out of "flat" the pressure plate is. Adjust the retaining nuts to get the fully opened pressure plate to ride as flat as possible in this open position. Then cotter-key or safety wire the nuts.

This, along with synthetic ATF in the tranny, has worked the best to minimize clutch drag down to acceptable levels, without the need to buy a new non-grooved clutch basket or new flat driven plates, etc. You may have a pressure plate that's warped or grooves in the basket fingers that prevent the plates from releasing easily. I've had the pressure plate read flat as a pancake without the lever pulled, and catty-whompass when disengaged out with the lever pulled---so important to check it with lever pulled.

Hope this helps.


Adrian
Regards,
Adrian Goold #101

'72 KTM 175 |'74.5 KTM 250 |'74.5 KTM 400 |Hagon/KTM 250 proj|'76 MC5 250 Project |'76 MC5 400|'78 KTM 250 Project |'81 KTM 250 MC | '81 KTM 495 MC

Offline Husabergpete

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Re: 1980 250 - Reason for clutch drag?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2009, 09:35:14 am »
Bill, Adrian and Denis,

Thanks so much for the help. At this stage the clutch has just a slight drag. Rideable though. The arm has been heated and bent to 46mm and the silicon gaskit is holding up ok.

For the record I have fibre clutch plates with a square pattern on them and am running ATF. The plates didn't appear to have much wear on them.

Is it possible to have over tightened the clutch plates with the nut and screws. We set them at 3 full turns out from flush plus a bit for the holes to line up. Just a thought.


All the best

Pete
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 08:38:02 pm by Husabergpete »
KTM 250 1980,  Maico 250 AW 1977, Husqvarna CR 430 1981, , CZ 250 1973 and a 550 Husaberg

Offline Husabergpete

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Re: 1980 250 - Reason for clutch drag?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2009, 07:12:46 pm »
Update - Clutch seems to have settled down and working perfectly.

All the best

Pete

PS - as of 170909 and all the 7 months of Heaven race meetings it is still A ok
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 08:37:08 pm by Husabergpete »
KTM 250 1980,  Maico 250 AW 1977, Husqvarna CR 430 1981, , CZ 250 1973 and a 550 Husaberg