TM 400

[VMX247]

Just wondering why one bike sells high and another doesn't. 
being a 73 model and all     suppose there is 3 hours to go   
thanks
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130274526961&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:AU:1123

[cyclegod]

It's not a TM400, it's a converted TS400, looks good and would make a "fun" big bore entry level bike.

[VMX247]

So the TM are like rocking horse .... or the TS are plenty full,Even thought they are from the same era 
thanks

[cyclegod]

TM400's rank highly on many peoples all-time crappiest bike list for a number of inherent flaw that the TS didn't get such as dodgy ignition and interesting handling. Many people used TS parts to correct some but not all of these failings.

[VMX247]

It still intrigues me (if thats the right word) with Suzuki,just some(not all) little things they seemed to have  missed on the production line,even now they(sales persons) are sometimes slow on the up keep of what peoples expectations are and they didnt make a 50cc like Doc was writing on earlier..
oh well,    hope Chad Reed & 2009 brings them up a bit.

[firko]

 Suzuki used the World Champion success with RH/RN works bikes as a selling feature for the TM line, implying that Joel and Roger were doing their stuff on bikes based on the humble TM you could buy at your local Suzuki dealer. With todays truth in advertising legislation they'd be busted for misleading advertising as there is absolutely no connection between the TM and RH/RN. They had five years to get the TM250 AND 400 sorted and competitive but still got it wrong in so many ways. Imagine if they'd put some of the RH's engineering brilliance into the TM instead of scamming the punters with false claims on an inadequate model. There isn't a more knowledgable Suzuki guy that our old mate Suzuki 211 and his assessment of the TM line, especially the 400 is pretty poor. That's why he now races Kawasakis. Thankfully, the Suzuki company redeemed themselves with the grounbreaking RM line in 1975.

I'm about to enter the world of the TM400 and have Guru Jens on the job of making the bike competitive. If it's 3/4 as good as my old Maico or even my old SC500 Yamaha I'll be rightly pleased.   

[Doc]

correction Firko, they did get the TM250's 'almost' right, it isn't a half bad bike and very much underated. After riding Dodgee's stocker TM250 at Coffs (first time I'd ever ridden a TM250) I was more than a little impressed! Maybe a few kgs heavier than most 250 mx'ers of the era but it certainly wasn't far off the pace, the power delivery was very very useable and with a good rider it'd be a winner. The 400 on the otherhand was just a sheer animal and not unlike the Yammie SC500 (from the reports I've received). Too much power in a terribly ill equipped chassis but Eric Cheney seemed sort that problem out given a little time, some Reynolds tubing and a little machining anyone spot that Beamish RL250 (325) on evilbay. I saw it first appear at $500(reserve not met) but it's now up over 3k I think with a few days to go..a very nice bike but also one that doesn't really interest me

btw, that TS/TM400 actually looks pretty damn good but it still needs an airbox, better shocks, alloy rims and blacked hubs to really look the part maybe a pipe also but eh, at least it'll come in under the Db limit $1800 reserve not met is a little expensive for a hybrid but someone may go for it

[firko]

Yeah Doc the 250 wasn't as bad as the 400 but my irritation is the Suzuki ads alluding that Joel did his work on a TM.
A mate has just bought a Beamish roller that will recieve a TY engine for something diferent. It'll also have Wassell alloy Sherpa T bodywork. The rolling frame cost him 100 quid UK!

[Tim754]

This sad case is going to project build a TM/TS 250 hybrid What ever became of the "on the cheap" build up one you did for the magazine Firko ? Cheers Tim

[Doc]

oh yeah Firko I totally agree, I didn't read your post properly sorry, the Suzuki's had little if anything to do with the factory bikes until the inception of the RM series but the marketing never really meant anything to me until Gaston put his name to them..then I simply had to have one! ..or several so it seems.. maybe because it's my era but I'd reckon Gaston sold more Suzuki's and influenced more potential buyers to hop onboard in Australia than RD and Joel combined.

Tim,there is a '73 TS/TM250 project about to commence here also, off the top I know of at least another 2 being built up I love running the underdog tag so the TM's suit me down to the ground..excepting the 400..I leave that alone

[firko]

My TM/TS is currently getting a rebirth with a Circle F pipe, works shocks and some other good stuff. My mate only has an evo 490 Maico and wanted a pre '75 bike. Seeing that he had donated the engine, it was only right that he got the bike. I felt a little guilty that I only ever rode the old bike once or twice. Expect to see it at Conondale in June.
I'm helping another mate clear his shed today and he has a TM250J basket case that he's talking of offloading. Who knows what I may bring home.

[VMX247]

Thanks a lot folks interesting reading,but I still don't get the TS bit 

[Doc]

VMX the TS is only a trailbike loosly based/styled like a TM. The TS are more plentiful but it's like comparing a DT Yammie to an MX or an MT Honda to a CR, a KE to a KX. They all sorta look similar but they were built for totally different markets and hence have a different following and collectability status. Usually a stock original TS125/250/400 with the lights and original road gear will command a far better price than a TS wannabe TM. 

[Harro]

Re:TM 400
I have a real one and to help remove the crappyness it has a TS crankshaft to tame the power spread and also a different ignition and has been tuned by Jens Olsen and it goes like a blurr.
Harro

[oldfart]

Ah the TS /Tm 400     Yep I was going to tame this beast alright  came away with three brocken ribs me pride a little in tatters and the bike gained a shit load of respect .
Firko  be warned they bite