Author Topic: TM-TS Flexy Flier Fix (?)  (Read 2161 times)

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Offline JC

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TM-TS Flexy Flier Fix (?)
« on: December 03, 2008, 11:33:19 AM »
Gents,

I've been giving some tho't to some of the handling vagaries of  TS/TM250s since I picked up a 72/3 TS 250 frame & swingarm to go w my 76 motor w the tho't of a Vinduro mount. Seems to me the frame design, construction & geometry are half-decent, but the swingarm is lacking considerably.

At only 32mm OD & 18-19" long, its rather long & slender (to put it mildly) to be resisiting much flex. See 1st pic below. (Ignore the date)


Also, the cross-bracing near the pivot is minimal compared to any decent handling bike of the day, esp euro bikes. See 2nd pic (in subsequent post) along side Ossa Phantom swingarm (whose OD is 36mm). I could have put a Maico, Mon, Cooper or Bul swingarm there as the comparison is similar.

Suz improved things themselves on later TSs.  Compare 3rd pic alongside later TS250 swingarm (in 3rd post). Larger OD & better cross-bracing.

Add to that the poor quality of Japanese steel of the day & you have a recipe for a flexy-flier of sorts.

I'm lead to believe that the TS/TM400 swingarms are little/no larger in OD than the 250s 32mm (tho they are apx 1" shorter), which may also help explain some of their infamous handling traits.

As we all know, accessory Cro-Mo swingarms provided a fix back in the day, but where do you find them (at reasonable cost) these days? 

It seems to me that a gusset (apx 20x3mm) welded in the vertical plane along the underside of each arm would stiffen it considerably & reduce much of the flex. Bending stresses are highest at the cross-brace, so the gussets should be max height/depth there, then could be tapered down, which would also look better (less obtrusive). Obviously you’d need to check chain clearance too, esp at max suspension travel.

Thats what I plan to do on mine, but its a long way from being completed yet.

I'm not suggesting this would fix all the handling issues & its hardly original, but it is simple & cheap & might just help considerably.

The cross-brace could do w improving also, but thats a bit more involved.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 09:37:27 AM by JC »

Offline JC

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Re: TM-TS Flexy Flier Fix??
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2008, 11:34:57 AM »
2nd pic - early TS250 swingarm compared to Phantom swing arm (left) below. Notice larger OD & much better cross-bracing
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 12:12:51 PM by JC »

Offline JC

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Re: TM-TS Flexy Flier Fix??
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2008, 11:36:28 AM »
3rd pic - Late (left) & Early (right) TS250 swingarms. Again, compare OD & cross-bracing.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 11:45:31 AM by JC »

Offline cyclegod

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Re: TM-TS Flexy Flier Fix??
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2008, 11:53:11 AM »
Just a thought, would an ER185/250 swing-arm fit?
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Offline JC

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Re: TM-TS Flexy Flier Fix??
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2008, 12:07:48 PM »
That is an ER250 swingarm (c 1980) in the 3rd pic. Pivot is larger dia, haven't checked width etc. Some ERs had square-tube swingarms (81??). Probably better still. ER185 arm is probably too short & maybe too light construction.

Doc

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Re: TM-TS Flexy Flier Fix??
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2008, 02:23:07 PM »
JC I'd be near inclined to look at the RM250B PE250B/C steel box section type arms or the A model in the round tube type. I have the box section one here so I'll get some measurementsfor comparison. The ER arms are too short as I've looked, no reason why they couldn't lengthened but they're not a great arm at best. DR500 and SP370/400 may also offer up another option buy I feel they are short also as I remember lengthening one I was going to fit to my RM400. Fabricated new shock mounts also but then a nice alloy job landed in my lap so this was rebuilt and the SP arm canned ;)

Offline JC

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Re: TM-TS Flexy Flier Fix??
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2008, 03:11:47 PM »
Yeh Doc,  RM/PE250 arm would be good if they fit. Do you know how wide they are at the pivot? DR400 I'd think would be long enough too.

People often say the TM250 was a bit heavy too, but I sometimes wonder where all the weight is. The engine isn't very heavy & my TS frame is quite light, but I seem to remember you saying elsewhere that the TM125 frame is actually heavier than the TM125s. Is it the same for the 250s Doc?

Doc

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Re: TM-TS Flexy Flier Fix??
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2008, 04:08:40 PM »
JC, the widths are as follows +/- 1mm
 RM250A 183mm
 PE250B/C 179mm
 DR500Z 184mm
 SP370C 184mm
 PE175N/T 182mm


 

a quick measure of my TM250 frame is 195ish MM across the pivot point so all arms are a do-able thing. I think my frame is a '74 but I've not checked as I'm still in the collecting phase. The pics below offer a poor veiw of the arms. The SP370 arm I lengthened about 2 inches and made new shock mounts but I never used it. I probably will as I've a few more projects I want to see through yet and most of these will find a home. Will get some more measurements later if you like?..kinda inbetween jobs right now but I needed a quick Ozvmx fix to bring me back to reality  :P ::)

« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 05:12:07 PM by Doc »

Offline LWC82PE

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Re: TM-TS Flexy Flier Fix??
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2008, 08:36:20 PM »
TS/ER 250 79-83ish are box section silver/champagne gold. i do not see one in any photos but if you have one i am looking for one at a resonable cost.
Wanted - 1978 TS185 frame or frame&motor. Frame # TS1852-24007 up to TS1852-39022