Of Invention and Patents.

[mx250]

How’s this for ‘left field’ – how much more ‘general’ do you want. But I know from your past helpful comments on a wide range of subjects that you guys have a wide range of life experience and you might be able to point me straight.

 I’ve got a good idea - a very good idea. An idea relating to mechanicals and workshops. An idea so good you guys are gonna kick yourselves and say ‘gee, why did I think of that?’

For sometime I’ve harbor the thought to pattern the idea.  I’ve been putting it off until a few investment/business details were settled so that I had the immediate capital and the unfretted time to push through with the idea. But the current financial/economic/global situation, and my brother ending up in hospital after a nasty accident and several ops, I thought ‘freak it, I’m gonna take his idea to the grave with me unless I get my finger out”.

I’ve done Google searches for info but haven’t found a lot of really helpful info. I’m such a ‘babe in the woods’ on this subject I’m not even sure what I’m looking for. The patenting of the idea is not too difficult. Getting advise if it a patentable idea, if its been done before etc etc etc, is harder to nail down.

And that’s only 10% of the prob. Having a pattern is nice but unless it is made and sold it is just an expense.  Actually I think that is the biggest hurdle.

I emailed a few companies with a proposal but they ignored me or said they would only speak with me if/when I held a patent. Catch 22 .

Have you guys got any suggestions? I’m especially interested in any assistance to get the idea ‘off the ground’. Do you guys know of any government or private means of assistance in matters such as this? 

[Lozza]

I might be able to put you in touch with someone who has been through this recently.Send me a PM.
Cheers

[cyclegod]

My boss is going through this process at the moment and has been for the last few years (he was on "The new inventors" program on the ABC) he is being assisted by a "patent lawyer" who checks his work against what has already been patented and if any one can copy what he has come up with by fudging the wording of his patent. It appears to be a long winded process as he started coming up with his device seven years ago (T.R.I.C.L.O.P.S Target Recognition Identification Cyclical Laser Optical Protection System) and we have yet to have a production unit manufactured, although we have working prototypes in the field. Best of luck I hope things work out with what you have.

[VMX247]

yep you need an attorney/lawyer to do a search for you and the rest.
good luck.
ps don't take it too the grave with you 

[Nathan S]

Scott (Mr VMXPlastics) would have some useful info, having patented the Multi-Mount a few years ago.

He's certainly told me some interesting stories about the way things work in the real world - those stories pretty well cured me of any dreams I had of making my fortune through inventing/selling stuff! I was also told to find the book written by the bloke who invented the Dyson vacuum cleaner, to hear about the hassles involved in a huge success...

Scott's perpetually busy, so please don't mistake this as being "Yeah, ring him up and have a chat - he's got all the time in the world" - but you'd be mad to not ask.

From my understanding, the people/compaines who have only wanted to speak to you after you've gotten the patent, have done you a big favour. The too-common MO is to fob you off and then patent/market it themselves...

[YSS]

We have looked at this process our selfs . You know what?  To enforce a patent world wide is simply not worth it anymore. There are so many loop holes .
We have adopted a strategy  to launch to the market as cheap as possible and with as many as possible .
Even the chinese still only cook with water . So if you produce good quality at the right price and penetrate the market its hard for a competitor to enter later on. That way you are moving offensive and do not waste time and money to be on the defensive.
My philosophy is " Dont worry about them , let them worry about you "

[mx250]

The too-common MO is to fob you off and then patent/market it themselves...

Like hell they will . I don't know much but I know not to trust any mother until their feet are nailed to the ground with some sort of legal binding contract . And I know enough to be wary and to be prepared to be disapointed .

He's certainly told me some interesting stories about the way things work in the real world - those stories pretty well cured me of any dreams I had of making my fortune through inventing/selling stuff!

I think I have realistic aims. Frankly I would be flattered and satisfied to see my idea utilised. But it would also put me in an early grave if I thought I was dudded for being stupid or because I was taken advantage of .

[mx250]

You know what?  To enforce a patent world wide is simply not worth it anymore.

I recognise that and the strategy would be to focus on the important, money spinning, regulated and enforceable markets/juridictions, e.g. USA, Europe etc.

There are so many loop holes .

Yeah, thats one of the probs I face. I know there are little variations on the concept that could get around my idea. At best I would be in for a long and costly legal battle . Or I get around the prob with multiple patents with minor variations, ($$$$'s ) in multiple jurisdictions, (even bigger $$$$'s ) .

We have adopted a strategy  to launch to the market as cheap as possible and with as many as possible .

My philosophy is " Dont worry about them , let them worry about you "

I like it and I subscribe to it . Best form of defence is a good attack .

However, my problem is that the idea is as much a concept as a physical 'widget' (although it does have physical form(s)). I'll need professional and experience help and guidence. But the dollars and the productivity will be worth it if I can 'get it off the ground'.

[Nathan S]

‘gee, why did I think of that?’

Interesting slip! 

[firko]

The whole patent process seems to be a waste of time and money when the Chinese can so easily steal your idea, change it in some minute way and then manufacture and market the product for a fraction what it'd cost you. For example there was a well known Aussie bike stand builder who improved on a couple of American designs and went into business manufacturing and selling a large variety of stands and other aluminium bike accessories. Before long he had a great little business going with full page ads in the dirt bike press and a growing export market. Then, almost overnight the bigger motorcycle "warehouse" style motorcycle accessory shops started to undercut him with their own Chinese made copies of his designs. Within months eBay and just about every bike shop in Australia was selling the cheap Chinese made copies which our Aussie manufacturer couldn't even hope to match cost wise.
A friend and I recently had an idea to produce a different type of bike stand that we'd seen in a American magazine. We imported one, did a cost anaysis, made a couple of prototypes in both steel and alloy and figured we'd uncovered a nice little earner. We were almost at the stage of ordering material when a mate that operates a large motorcycle accessory company dropped by with a Chinese version of our stolen idea that he'd imported for less than half of our proposed break even figure. That ended that "nice little earner".
I'm not trying to put a damper on your idea Graeme, I sincerely hope you can pull it off. I'm just warning that it's going to be very hard to keep the industrial thieves away. Patents don't mean a hill of beans to a country that ignores western industrial law. If they rip you off, sueing them is a lengthy and very expensive exercise and they know that most little firms haven't got the financial guts to take them on.
It's a sad reflection on the way society is headed.

[Tim754]

Only last week I browsed around the W***ps Alloy Products stand at the Elmore Field Days and thought to myself ,It is good to see a quality products still made in Australia still willing to support our own events. 

[mx250]

Firko,

If the original maker of your stand had a valid and recognised patent for that stand in Australia they could have stop both you and the chinese knockoffs from been sold in Australia and claimed damages against either.

The key words are "a valid and recognised patent". And they could be involved in the obvious legal arguments if there were slight alterations and variations - again an area in which I have no expertise.

They could also stop the Chinese knockoffs from been sold in any juridiction (country) where they held a "a valid and recognised patent". They would not be able to stop production or sales or take any actions within China. Communist China doesn't recognise any form of private ownership, intellectural or otherwise (at the moment - wait till it suits them , wait until they start 'discovering' techniques, technologies, medicenes and inventions ).

The stubbling block is the cost of setting up of a the "valid and recognised patents" and the cost of detecting and enforcing your rights both by direct legal actions and ensuring the regulators do their job.

Yes my idea is very open to this type of 'rip off' which is why I would have to sell or licence it, for a poofteenth, to a large company or companies able and interested in protecting their interests and investments.

I would never have that 'legal firepower' but the idea has such a potential benefit and mark up for a large company they would find it worthwhile to protect, at least in selected larger markets.

And therein lies my delema. I know I have a good and marketable idea. I know it will be 'picked up' by all and sundry. I know it can be easily copied and varied. But it is literally worth hundreds of $millions in both sales for the company/ies and worth hundreds of $millions in productivity to the buyers.

If I just 'put it out there' I'm sure it would be picked up and commercially exploited. I don't want the whole pot, just a very very small % of the pot, either up front or for now and ongoing.

[Freakshow]

What kills me is the ideas we have that we, and our government let loose on the world in the name of developement then the little pricks sell them back to us after we give them all the tools and knowledge in some floundering trade agreement/ assistance/ or trade fair junket where they then manufacter for companies and then sell a shit load out the back door in direct competition and then worst still after a while they end up selling it back to us using our resources, ali, steel etc, at a price less than a local manufacturer can buy the same materials for in the first place and he is 3km from the plant - WTF !

First world, tree huggin ecomies like ours are our own worst enemy.  Free and fair trade only seems to work one way and thats to make the concious feel better about themselves - IMHO

[mx250]

What kills me is the ideas we have that we, and our government let loose on the world in the name of developement then the little pricks sell them back to us after we give them all the tools and knowledge in some floundering trade agreement/ assistance/ or trade fair junket where they then manufacter for companies and then sell a shit load out the back door in direct competition and then worst still after a while they end up selling it back to us using our resources, ali, steel etc, at a price less than a local manufacturer can buy the same materials for in the first place and he is 3km from the plant - WTF !

First world, tree huggin ecomies like ours are our own worst enemy.  Free and fair trade only seems to work one way and thats to make the concious feel better about themselves - IMHO

That fact that gthey work for about $2.50 an hour for 60 hours a week, few holidays, no compensation etc etc and the companies get all sorts of tax breaks and tax holidays, and can pollute and put dodgey goods on the market with little fear of litergation has nothing to do with it .

[Freakshow]

Exactly. So you think a patent is going to stand when you got all that to content with.

I remember a show on abc or sbs ages ago about a guy from china i think it was who made jeans, he was one of many, any how he travelled the world trying to get sales to make em and was pitching like $2 a pair of jeans or somthing, came home to the factory had a 1 month deadline for a full range of like 10,000 pairs or somthing and had the factory working 20 HR days for about 25 cent an employee, they also paid to live on-site in dorms and were charged for that and food, but hey didnt know that till after they had finished the run as to how much it would be, and no one got paid if the run wasnt finished, end of story, so they were rooted they may have been owed 3 months pay but if they didnt get the goods out of the factory by the due date no one got a cent, but alas it was a job and they all had come in from the counrty side to work there, your right there are no RULES, for anything.  The local guys run, close, open factories with no fear of industrial retribution, super payments, taxes, workers comps, when they make the rules, litigation is a word they dont need to spell as nothing seems to worry them its all part and parcel of making money in there version of Capitalism