Dick Mann DR 370 frame

[SON]

I am sure they are, which is why the DR engine sits back so far from the front down tubes,
I think Bill Forsythe might have a photo of the two frames side by side from about 10 years ago,
Thinking out aloud, It would be good to see some of Bill's unpublished photos.

[SON]

Martin I have the 500cc 400 engine out of storage and will post photos tomorrow,
I also had a closer look at the FullFloater prototype photo that you posted,
it appears to be a DR500 engine which has the front counterbalancer and 4v
Can you please post the rest of the article and any other photos?

[ola_martin]

Sorry SON, I just found the photo random on the net. But it comes from a late 90's article i read in MotocrossAction where they built a MX'er of a DR350 or DRZ400, and just put in the photo to say that 4stroke mx is nothing new for Suzuki.

Would love info on how to put in a XTcrank in the DR...

[SON]

Taking photos today

[firko]

THREAD DEVIATION ALERT...Apologies to those concerned.

Thinking out aloud, It would be good to see some of Bill's unpublished photos.

Jonesy and I helped the old buzzard move a couple of years ago and it took nearly a day just to transfer his transparencies and prints into storage. If you add his digital stuff you'd have literally millions of photos from fifty years of motoring photography. Bills not the most organised specimen on the planet so I'd presume that sorting his stuff would be a lifetime commitment 

Maybe Billy and I could do some pieces on a few of your bikes Graeme....also thinking out aloud . While I'm on the subject, do you have the trick C&J XR500/600 Honda* flat tracker that Ted Goddard set up for his son Peter to race twenty odd years ago tucked away in your stash? That bike came up in conversation the other day which made me do some wondering.

*I think it was a C&J, however it may have been another frame maker and I can't recall whether it was an XR500 or 600....the old memory is not as good as it once was.

[SON]

No but I have its brother
Roger was at American Honda in 84 when Jay Foreman and I went there
As soon as we saw Shoberts bikes we knew they were the gear
Jay went back over  in 85 and brought back this bike
Pete who was Jays Best Man went over in 86 stayed for a season,
I will find out where it is

[cloggy]

A DMS suzuki frame is being built up in the UK now. Came over from the states in the last couple of years. A friend of someone I know has it.
Mann only made a few. They are as rare as the mark 4 TT500 frame.

[LWC82PE]

Post some photos of it if you are able to get some. Would be good to see what they look like.

[cloggy]

I've contacted the owner and he's sent another couple of photos, enough to see that it is indeed a DMS 370 but nothing more. It's a rolling wreck. Still has the DMS style exhaust on it. Looks to have the  mk2/3 style swingarm and canted shocks. In the only comment I've read Dick Mann stated that he got these and the Honda made in '79, which is odd as the swingarm and frame design are different. I can only assume he had the 370 version made in early '79 and the Honda late: but then in that VMX 10 byline he also stated he made 25 of each and according to this thread he recently stated he made less than 10 DRs. Anyway the Honda and mk4 TT500 frame appear to have the same swingarm and a very similar shock placement and frame design and mk4s were made up to 81. I've located four of them. One a show queen in the current VMX72 wrongly ascribed as a mk2, one turned into a roadbike, one in Portland with a cracked headstock and a  bodged repair, and mine. Mk3s seem even rarer.
Anyway I'm hoping to go and see the DMS 370  this summer, or at the very least get some better shots of it.

[mick25]

I’m in talks at the moment with a guy that has a NOS Dick Mann frame never used
He made three versions of the TT500 frames , bit of history .

[cloggy]

He made 4 TT versions. He stated that clearly in VMX 10 and he emailed me the same info. The three versions nonsense comes from one particular comment  on this website.      http://www.lt-racing.com/html/dms_tt500_versions.html
 On that website is also Dick Mann's byline from VMX10
http://www.lt-racing.com/VMX_DMS_1.PDF
 but Les didn't read it and only recently has accepted that there are four, after I've sent him several photos of different mk4s. He hasn't updated that website for possibly a decade. MK4 looks like the Honda version and came after it . Both have the swingarm shocks more vertical and are the only frames to have the swingarm pivot plates inboard of the frame rails. All others have them outboard.

[mick25]

Ok I didn’t realise this , I was going from research I’ve done online and the latest vmx mag said there was three versions made for the TT .
The one in the latest vmx mag is said to be the second version frame made .
The one I’m looking at is the first version with rear frame loop and the snail cam adjusters on the swingarm pivot to square the rear wheel up for chain .

[cloggy]

Yeh VMX totally c****d that up. The bike in the article is a version 4, nothing like version 2, of which there a lot of photos both on the aforementioned website and on google images. The restorer didn't do much research and the magazine assumed he knew what he was talking about. I've emailed the mag and sent  photos....

[mick25]

Well that’s a curve ball I didn’t realise this .
 it didn’t say if the swingarm also was a Dick Mann one in the latest vmx mag it looked a bit fancy ?
Dick Mann made frames for the XR,XL500 engines how many of those did he make ? I’ve only seen one that rod spry posted on line and it was a super nice bike better than the C&J frames in my book with a cradle frame .

[cloggy]

Rod Spry clocked my frame' differences years ago before I bought it and before he did the Honda. I have photos of another Honda which I can send you. The swingarm looks identical to the mk 4 and is indeed a fabricators work of art. I think Les's own bike has the same swingarm. He has mentioned that that is not the original. The swingarm is very different from mks1 to 3 and the DR version, but still essentially box steel.
Dick Mann has stated he had 25 made of the Honda version. His own comments on the DR version start at 25 but have been as low as single figures according to previous comments on this strand.