Author Topic: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400  (Read 5346 times)

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Offline Scriberman

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KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« on: April 24, 2020, 05:04:42 AM »
 I've read about using a KX500 (86mm)  In a PE 400, But what about the small end bearing?  PE 20mm Pin 25mm rod.  KX Pin 19mm  . Can't find a bearing 19 x 25 x 22.
  Thanks,
 Steve,

Offline GMC

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2020, 10:16:41 AM »
A customer in the States has pistons for PE 400's

"I have 86 and 85.75 mm. With the 85.75 a person would have to fit the rings to cylinder because they only make the rings to 85.5 & 86 mm."

I can put you in contact with him if you like.
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Offline sleepy

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2020, 10:49:02 AM »
I don't like that option as the KX piston is flat topped and has an inlet skirt cutaway. I have done a couple using other 86mm pistons but they also require a rod change and a barrel spacer as the comp heights are different with 18mm pins. Just looked and industrial 18x25x22mm needle rollers are listed so might get away with just a spacer and from memory the PE uses piston end thrusts which may need some re-work. 
Don't know what has been done to fix the pin difference with the KX500 piston but I vaguely remember something about crowded 3mm rollers. Not something I would want to do but was used in 2 strokes back in the dark ages. The piston could also be machined to take a 20mm pin which isn't that hard to do just a bit costly.   

Offline Scriberman

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2020, 06:28:54 PM »
A customer in the States has pistons for PE 400's

"I have 86 and 85.75 mm. With the 85.75 a person would have to fit the rings to cylinder because they only make the rings to 85.5 & 86 mm."

I can put you in contact with him if you like.
That would be good thanks, steve . bird  at williams f1 .com

Offline Scriberman

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2020, 06:33:00 PM »
I don't like that option as the KX piston is flat topped and has an inlet skirt cutaway. I have done a couple using other 86mm pistons but they also require a rod change and a barrel spacer as the comp heights are different with 18mm pins. Just looked and industrial 18x25x22mm needle rollers are listed so might get away with just a spacer and from memory the PE uses piston end thrusts which may need some re-work. 
Don't know what has been done to fix the pin difference with the KX500 piston but I vaguely remember something about crowded 3mm rollers. Not something I would want to do but was used in 2 strokes back in the dark ages. The piston could also be machined to take a 20mm pin which isn't that hard to do just a bit costly.

 Most of the other 86mm pistons I've looked at have a big inlet skirt cut away ( it400, Seadoo ect)  .Good shout on machining the piston, could I move the postition as well to get rid of a spacer?  ( can you remember what pistons, spacer you used)?

Offline Momus

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2020, 07:02:59 PM »
You can get Wossner US to make you exactly what is required. They are forgedies.
They will work to a sample or your requirements and have a fairly quick turnaround. Done many successfully for me.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 07:05:46 PM by Momus »
If you love it, lube it.

Offline sleepy

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2020, 07:08:42 PM »
I don't like that option as the KX piston is flat topped and has an inlet skirt cutaway. I have done a couple using other 86mm pistons but they also require a rod change and a barrel spacer as the comp heights are different with 18mm pins. Just looked and industrial 18x25x22mm needle rollers are listed so might get away with just a spacer and from memory the PE uses piston end thrusts which may need some re-work. 
Don't know what has been done to fix the pin difference with the KX500 piston but I vaguely remember something about crowded 3mm rollers. Not something I would want to do but was used in 2 strokes back in the dark ages. The piston could also be machined to take a 20mm pin which isn't that hard to do just a bit costly.

 Most of the other 86mm pistons I've looked at have a big inlet skirt cut away ( it400, Seadoo ect)  .Good shout on machining the piston, could I move the postition as well to get rid of a spacer?  ( can you remember what pistons, spacer you used)?

RM465 and Maico 490. The Maico is 86.5mm and spacer was 4mm with a gasket either side. Skirt is a little long as well but easy to machine.

Offline LWC82PE

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2020, 12:02:58 PM »
Does Wossner have a minimum order size?
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Offline Tomas

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2020, 02:47:01 PM »
I've read about using a KX500 (86mm)  In a PE 400, But what about the small end bearing?  PE 20mm Pin 25mm rod.  KX Pin 19mm  . Can't find a bearing 19 x 25 x 22.
  Thanks,
 Steve,
Bronze bush will work

Offline Momus

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2020, 08:00:45 PM »
Does Wossner have a minimum order size?
Yes. 4.
If you love it, lube it.

Offline Momus

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2020, 08:02:24 PM »
I've read about using a KX500 (86mm)  In a PE 400, But what about the small end bearing?  PE 20mm Pin 25mm rod.  KX Pin 19mm  . Can't find a bearing 19 x 25 x 22.
  Thanks,
 Steve,
Bronze bush will work
Jawa, Victa????????
If you love it, lube it.

Offline Tomas

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2020, 08:16:00 AM »
I've read about using a KX500 (86mm)  In a PE 400, But what about the small end bearing?  PE 20mm Pin 25mm rod.  KX Pin 19mm  . Can't find a bearing 19 x 25 x 22.
  Thanks,
 Steve,
Bronze bush will work
Jawa, Victa????????
Yes. And all modern motocrossers, turbo diesels, supercars etc. And all the other engines where your needle bearing would shit itself in no time. Aeroplanes too. Obviously mamas you know shit about motors. How many have you build that way?

Offline sleepy

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2020, 08:53:10 AM »
I've read about using a KX500 (86mm)  In a PE 400, But what about the small end bearing?  PE 20mm Pin 25mm rod.  KX Pin 19mm  . Can't find a bearing 19 x 25 x 22.
  Thanks,
 Steve,
Bronze bush will work
Jawa, Victa????????
Yes. And all modern motocrossers, turbo diesels, supercars etc. And all the other engines where your needle bearing would shit itself in no time. Aeroplanes too. Obviously mamas you know shit about motors. How many have you build that way?

Bronze bushes are fabulous in 4 strokes when there is a good clean oil to lubricate them but unfortunately a PE400 is a 2 stroke and the only oil is mixed in a large amount of petrol and that is why almost every 2 stroke in the last 50 years runs a needle roller little end and a roller bigend. Bush would allow motor to run but would wear very quickly. 

Offline Oldfart

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2020, 07:59:29 PM »
I did an article on this about 8 years ago in detail ( should be suzuki  files )   rode the bike in comps for over 3 years without a problem
 Kx 500 piston with seadoo rod and crowded top roller

Offline Oldfart

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2020, 08:03:04 PM »
Also explained how and what was need to Run the Seadoo Rod ......I think  Ron Anchard copied it and tried to sell it as a kit

Offline sleepy

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2020, 10:06:01 AM »
I did an article on this about 8 years ago in detail ( should be suzuki  files )   rode the bike in comps for over 3 years without a problem
 Kx 500 piston with seadoo rod and crowded top roller
Just imagine how much better it would have gone with an RM465 piston. I have a funny feeling that the Seadoo rods that were being fitted to Suzuki's back then have become very hard to come by.

Offline Oldfart

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2020, 07:59:08 PM »
how many do you want ....

Offline Oldfart

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2020, 08:02:55 PM »
Also have  Pe / rm  1979 -81  rods.... if anyone is looking for one
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 04:25:26 PM by Oldfart »

Offline Scriberman

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Re: KX 500 Piston in a PE 400
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2020, 05:44:15 AM »
 Thanks people, all sorted Von B had a couple.