2020 Classic Nats

[Husky500evo]

Finally, some commonsense on the suspension travel limit rules for the pre ‘78 class bikes . Having to pull apart my standard ‘77 model forks , to fit travel limiting spacers , was one of the reasons that I just didn’t bother with entering this class . Now I have one less excuse, so I might have to try and turn up .
On the subject of travel limits for pre ‘75 bikes , I can understand the need for this for bikes with more than 4 inches rear travel and it is easy enough to fit spacers under the bump stop rubbers of the rear shock/s . I have ‘74.5 model Maicos and they have enough of an advantage over other bikes in the class , without having another 2.5 inches of rear wheel travel as well . To my knowledge , there wasn’t any ‘74 model bikes that came out with more than ‘7 inches of fork travel, so having to pull forks apart to limit travel shouldn’t be an issue with these bikes .
Some pre ‘75 bikes seem to slip under the radar , with more than 4” rear travel , like the ‘74 Huskys . A while back ,  I  borrowed a ‘74 WR 400 Husky with a Mag swingarm and measured the rear travel at over 6 “ .
Also , the Evo 4 stroke class is a great idea . I have ‘84 Husky 510s and an ‘82 Can Am Sonic that would go well in this class . I also have friends with HL 500s and C&J Hondas , that would also be good to see running around in this class .

[sleepy]

I thought talking about rules on this forum was frowned on but 10.5 inch front and rear and a free hand to modify shock mount for pre78 in my opinion is a mistake as it will turn the class into a hot rod class for some. The guys with 1975 models and a lot of 76 models with less than 8 inch travel will probably leave their bikes at home as they will be so out classed by the 10.5 inch bikes. Time will tell I guess but I would think we will loose more bikes from the class than is picked up.
Funny how the pre75 limits get talked about every now and then, it at the time didn't make much sense as most of the 74 model bike had factory fitted 4 inch travel shocks and the CR Honda's were advertised as having 4.2 inch travel shocks. With 4 inch shocks the wheel travel was close to 5 inch on most but the 4 inch wheel travel rule stuck but was only ever really checked at titles on 74 Maico's or YZB's.

[Gippslander]

This is the statement put to the decision makers about the pre 78 rule change (from MA website), seems sensible and congrats the the MA MX people for making the decision:

"With many pre 1978 model motorcycles delivered from new in 1977 with
both front & rear wheel travel exceeding the current 229mm (9 inches), it
seems silly to be asked to de-engineer a motorcycle from standard OEM
specifications, as delivered in 1977, to meet the 229mm (9inch) travel
restrictions for the pre 1978 competition class. Relaxing the travel
restrictions to OEM specifications will not only reflect the true era of
motorcycles from the period but also encourage more potential
competitors to the class. It is currently a deterrent for new competitors to
enter the class having to de-engineer their machines from OEM
specifications."

Now, someone with a better knowledge of pre 75 bikes than me please put the same logic to MA for the pre 75 class.

[Momus]

This is the statement put to the decision makers about the pre 78 rule change (from MA website), seems sensible and congrats the the MA MX people for making the decision:

"With many pre 1978 model motorcycles delivered from new in 1977 with
both front & rear wheel travel exceeding the current 229mm (9 inches), it
seems silly to be asked to de-engineer a motorcycle from standard OEM
specifications, as delivered in 1977, to meet the 229mm (9inch) travel
restrictions for the pre 1978 competition class. Relaxing the travel
restrictions to OEM specifications will not only reflect the true era of
motorcycles from the period but also encourage more potential
competitors to the class. It is currently a deterrent for new competitors to
enter the class having to de-engineer their machines from OEM
specifications."

Now, someone with a better knowledge of pre 75 bikes than me please put the same logic to MA for the pre 75 class.

That Pre78 submission was made by Carl Oberhauser who is probably the biggest and most enthusiastic social media, AKA Facebook, VMX proponent in the country. No doubt that Facebook is the village square now, like it or not. All the Clubs promote themselves using it and so do a large number of VMX service businesses as well as the governing organisations.

For what it's worth I'd have a lot of reservations seeing the suspension travel rules changed for Pre75. Compared to the 3 years of Pre 78 eligibility 5 years are covered by the earlier class and within it are a far greater number of makes and models likely to be competitive. Change it and you could see the long travel rear 1974/74.5 models completely dominate.

[Bamford#69]

Hi,   Bugger, my 1977 Honda CR125 is F****d then , a massive 7 inch travel Front and rear aint going to be any good in that class , or, do I stick 1977 Husqvarna forks and swing arm in it . maybe they should just call it the  "1977" class .

[Ted]

Don’t panic yet Michael.
In 2014 at Echo Valley Nats a 1977 RM 125 B won the Evo class.
This year a 1977 RM 125 B won the Evo 16-29 class
Also this year a 1973 YZ 250 A won the Pre 75 All Powers title against plenty of open class

[bigk]

There seems to be some undue reservation about the lifting of the 9" suspension limit to 10.5" in the pre 1978 class. I can't see anyone who has already limited (sorted) their bikes to 9" taking them back & the option to increase 7" (or less) travel bikes to the meet the 9" class limit (now 10.5") has always been there. The new limit simply reflects what some makes came with off the showroom floor & riders can now ride their bikes as they were purchased in 1977 without having to de-engineer them, making it easier to enter the class. The removal of the standard shock mount position rule now allows bikes with layed forward suspension (1975 Honda's for example) into the class where beforehand they were relegated to the Evolution class, so even more bikes eligible for the class. Anyone worried about their bike not having enough suspension travel is letting their mind defeat them in the first instance. A low bike goes around corners better than a tall bike & as the saying goes " jumps for show, corners for dough". Any of the 1975, 1976 & 1977 models are all very competitive in the class & all have pro's & con's, bring them out & join in the fun.
K

[Gippslander]

Agreed BigK, a practical rule improvement that makes it a bit easier to roll out the old bike.

This year's pre 78 turn out at Viper has been impressive, and being able to ride EVO and be reasonably up with the pack makes for a few more fun rides.

[Momus]

The 2019 VIPER Pre78 title was probably taken out by the oldest and shortest bike in the field- a 75 KX big bore with what looks like 7/7 or so.

It's possibly instructive to note that of the three VMX clubs running Pre78 in Victoria, the Classic Scramble Club, which races only natural terrain tracks, consistently had the biggest fields. The Winchelsea round, held on an undulating paddock attracted 23 riders- some earlier bikes included- and was won by a short travel TT500.

[Ted]

There seems to be some undue reservation about the lifting of the 9" suspension limit to 10.5" in the pre 1978 class. I can't see anyone who has already limited (sorted) their bikes to 9" taking them back & the option to increase 7" (or less) travel bikes to the meet the 9" class limit (now 10.5") has always been there. The new limit simply reflects what some makes came with off the showroom floor & riders can now ride their bikes as they were purchased in 1977 without having to de-engineer them, making it easier to enter the class. The removal of the standard shock mount position rule now allows bikes with layed forward suspension (1975 Honda's for example) into the class where beforehand they were relegated to the Evolution class, so even more bikes eligible for the class. Anyone worried about their bike not having enough suspension travel is letting their mind defeat them in the first instance. A low bike goes around corners better than a tall bike & as the saying goes " jumps for show, corners for dough". Any of the 1975, 1976 & 1977 models are all very competitive in the class & all have pro's & con's, bring them out & join in the fun.
K

So I take it a scrutineer can easily pick a 1978 Suzuki C fork and shocks fitted to a 75-77 model despite it having 10.5” of suspension travel?

[Nebo]

   I think some  forget the reason for suspension travel rules in the first place.

    Which was to give a parity or level playing field for Pre 75 Comptition.
 
     Bikes like the Yamaha YZB and & 74 1/2 Maico GP have a clear advantage over a lot of other bikes.

     I know from testing without spacers with the KONI GP,s or Custom built ICOM socks we use on the MAICO GP that our riders lap times are over 1/2 second per lap faster.  This with out changing the dampering or changing the settings on the Forks.  And with the extra travel its easer to ride.

    This will make a well set up MAICO GP even more of a avantage.

     As far as pre 78 goes our AW400 we will be able to use Remote Koni,s or OHLINS.  No Problem.
     
     But may be expensive for others that need to buy new socks and modify the forks.



   

[Ted]

I’m not convinced the bikes you mention will have a advantage.
I’ve seen a 1973 YZ 250 with 7/4 travel dominate every race its entered for the past 6/7 years with lap times up to 20 seconds a lap better than anything in its class. When you gain 1/2 second off these times it doesn’t really matter

[Nebo]

   Spelling error.   Should be IKON shocks. Had them made up in Albury.
   
    Good people to deal with. They look like the old 78 series Koni,s but have bigger diameter shafts and other updated
    internals.

   They work well on our MAICO 74 250  GP.

[LWC82PE]

This is good news. No need to modify first gen KYB Proline forks  (later ones still need 1/4" restriction) & some Simons forks and many aftermarket internal kits eg Fox, Al Baker may be able to be used without mods (still have to check they meet 10.5" though)

[Graham]

Ted, no point making statements about kids riding old Rm's or YZ's , if you were riding them would they place anywhere, NO.
Average punters will be disadvantaged with the new rules.