The Honda RC450

[DJRacing]

We have all read the thread about the RC450 Replica and had a say, but here is a chance to vote.

[evo550]

Thought about the same thing myself this arvo after the replica thread, it would be good to expand on it and see if the resistance (if any) would come from an official or riders.Personally if I was acting in an official capacity, I wouldn't have a problem with it and would leave any opposition up to the other competitors in the class, and if I happened to have a helmet on that day in the open evo class, doubt it would worry me then either..........all this is based on club competition, for state or national titles a different story though where the gcr's are applied with a little bit more force.

[GMC]

I have been watching the argu… er debate but haven’t found time to sit down & type my opinion yet.

I think your poll is wrong as the rules do say that you can race a replica, the $64,000 question is what makes a replica, & how close does it need to be?

[DJRacing]

Yes the rules do say you can race a replica, but if you used a CR450 barrel and head off a '81 Honda CR450 that is a linkage bike the rules state no components of a latter period. If someone used 99% of a '79/'80 CR250 and just machined a '81 barrel and head up to fit so it looked as close as possible to the RC450 then is that legal GMC?
If you wish to make a replica do you state that it is a "Replica" and the barrel is off an "aircooled motor" or do you have to manufacture a new barrel?

I worded the poll as best I could without an opinion to whether or not the bike is legal or not and tried to give different scenarios so the forum members could vote for their closest opinion on the bike and the rules. If you think there should be another question or two then by all means say them so the members have more options, but then again do we need a poll for the questions for the poll?

Should I have just had the question;   "Should a Replica RC450 race?"
                                                     *YES
                                                     *NO

[090]

I cant see any issue with a cr450 running around at club level. In Queensland we dont have prize money or trophies, in fact not even point scoring so no big deal here. Lets face it, we're just a bunch of old farts wallowing 'round a track for fun.
I don't think a bike like that should not compete in a national or state event and lets face it, a guy like bigkellogs dosen't need to run it as a regular ride as he has his other race bikes for that. I would be confident that the guys who build a bike like this have enough race bikes already and have built a one off for the pleasure of building a cool bike. I know i would want to show it off and get a buzz by riding it on occassion.
I would welcome it with open arms, figuratively speaking of course!

[GMC]

Sorry DJ, I wasn't trying to bag your poll, I'm not sure myself what the wording should be.

If someone used 99% of a '79/'80 CR250 and just machined a '81 barrel and head up to fit so it looked as close as possible to the RC450 then is that legal GMC?
If you wish to make a replica do you state that it is a "Replica" and the barrel is off an "aircooled motor" or do you have to manufacture a new barrel?

All good questions and know doubt you will get many different answers from others.

I think that if you used a 75 barrel that was the same as the 74 barrel in the pre 75 class it would be okay. If you can't tell from the outside then who's to know anyway?
I believe the whole 75 CR125 is allowed in pre75 as its much the same as the 74 model.
While using the 81 CR450 barrel in Evo isn't allowed as it's not the same as the RC barrel, but what if it was changed to be the same?
For those not in the know, the CR450 barrel is centre port exhaust design while the RC450 is a side port exhaust. So just using a straight CR barrel is no good as it's nowhere near the same.
However if it has been changed to be the same as the RC and is no longer suitable for the CR then can this be classed as a replica?
I don't see that a replica part has to be completly made from new material.




There are probably other casting marks I'm not aware of that may be considered different.
I beleive that this replica should only be knocked back if you consider that it's not a true replica, not because the barrel was from a 81 model in a previous life.

[Nathan S]

I believe that this replica should only be knocked back if you consider that it's not a true replica, not because the barrel was from a 81 model in a previous life.

And that's the crux of it all, really.
When is a replica "good enough" to be accepted as a replica?

In the case of the barrel, stuff like port location is obvious, but what about the number of cooling fins, the bore size, the overall height, the porting (assuming a different arrangement of ports production vs works part), etc?
Who's to know what the real dimensions are?

What if we were talking about triple clamps or front brakes or swing arms?

Anyhow, getting back to the question....
If someone has just gone and built it, and then turned up to a club race meet, I probably wouldn't care in the slightest. But that's different to saying "Yes, I reckon its a good idea"....
And if I'm asked in advance whether I think its a good thing for someone to lean on the rules, then I'll say "No".

[mboddy]

Let us say that you enter a bike and I protest that it is not ok.
I do not have to prove that it is not ok.
The GCRs say that it is YOU that has to PROVE that it IS ok.
If you build something then make sure that you bring all the evidence that it is ok to every race meeting.
And write down your arguments that PROVE that it is ok.
Your argument must be good enough that you can win it no matter who is deciding on the day.
If you can not do this then do not build it.
If you don't want this hassle then race a stock bike. 

[E74]

When I was in the peak of my racing career it was the mid nineties, I was riding a Husaberg , It was without a doubt state of the art machinery. there was a guy in our club(HDMCC) at the time named "Mick", he'd turn up at enduro-crosses, cross country's, Enduro's and the like...on a 81 KX420, it was a real peice of shit!, Mick won the enduro, cross country and Pony express  club championship (Clubman Class) at least once on that rig, and had passed me (Being A grade at the time) on it on several occasions.
What I am saying here is that all this piss whinning about a poofteenth pubic hair outside the bitch factor regulations is all crap, these guys protesting are just girlie-mans and mostly it don't matter shit what you are on... it comes down to riding ability.

Look at the guy who won the pre 85 in Tassie, you can't tell me that a 490 Maico has even a scratch on a 84 CR500? Honda at that time were sinking millions into HRC and motocross bike technology whilst maico were wiping their dirty little German bums getting ready flush the whole shit fight.

still, who won the event in Tassie?, the guy with the riding ability and the fitness.


Bring the RC450 replica's on I say, if it is a true replica and it is within the air cooled/drum brake/ non-linkage rules.... let it ride (The guy on the german crudmobile is gunna blow him off anyway!)

[mainline]

nathan put my thoughts into words better than I could. If it turned up already done, i wouldn't care (mainly because I wouldn't know any better to be honest) but I think the rules, although not perfect, are there for a reason.

BTW, you could beat me on a pw50 so I'm irrelevant.

[Maico31]

E74 hit the nail on the head.. it comes down to riding ability and the best guy will win regardless. All the girls talking about illegal bikes and protests are carrying on about nothing, in the 12 years that i've raced Evo i'm yet to see an illegal bike on the track or a protest. Get over it and get on with Evo like it is, ride the works replicas in pre '85 or start a Hybrid class.

[holeshot buddy]

i agree with john we have been racing evo
for over ten years with no dramas
why change something that works

what would happen if i turned up with
an 1984 kawasaki sr500 watercooled works bike in pre 85
would they let me ride

[DJRacing]

I would hope so Holeshot. 

[squirtmoto]

The way I see it we need as many "bums on seats" as we can. So sure let them ride. Leave it up to the eligibility NAZI's to explain 'hey mate your bike is possibly illegal, you can ride it, but if someone protests.......'
Most guys will be happy with that! Some will whinge as they always do!!

[Maico31]

I agree with something along those lines Bill, but i don't think it's worth changing the rules for.