Bored at work and thinking VMX

[Maico31]

It seems like all this talk about changing the Evo rules is just to let 2 or 3 guys ride their works replicas in the class. Is it really worth it??  Why not just let those guys turn up with their bikes, have them scrutineered and let them ride at Club days but are not eligible to score points or receive trophies.

[Tim754]

Thank you Maico31 please all read his (hers?) then reread above post and understand how simple and complete it is. 

[DJRacing]

Remember John, this is all just thoughts...I was just bored at work. It wasnt about changing the rules but as the thread has moved on so do the thoughts. I am certainly not looking to change anything or anyone but just to give an opinion on a subject that was up for debate. Because I have posted up an alternative set of rules doesnt mean I want to change the way the original evo class is, but more to give people something to think about when they are bored at work.
As I say, I am not trying to change the rules of the evo class, because the alternative rules that I posted actually would mean everything stays the same except a couple more bikes would be able to race.
A YZ465 engine looks the same as a YZ490
If you have pre82 then it is simple isnt it?
I think the scrutineers would find it quite simple, if they can deal with the pre78, pre75 and so on rules, a pre82 class surely wouldnt be hard to scrutinize.
The 1981 linkage bikes with air cooled motors would run in the pre85 class as normal but if you happen to have a 1981 air cooled motor sitting around doing nothing and a non linkage, drum braked roller sitting next to it then you have the makings of a twin shocked evo bike that wouldnt normally be eligible.
One more bike on the line, and isnt that a good thing??

[BAHNZY]

It seems like all this talk about changing the Evo rules is just to let 2 or 3 guys ride their works replicas in the class. Is it really worth it??  Why not just let those guys turn up with their bikes, have them scrutineered and let them ride at Club days but are not eligible to score points or receive trophies.

As a competitor, how would you feel if you were at the pointy end of the field and was taken out in a race by a non competive rider and you broke an arm. If a rider can't race for points or trophies then they are not racing, there simply circulating in a competive environment as a non competive entrant.
You cant be 1/2 pregnant.

[Maico31]

Yeah DJ more bikes on the line is good. I get what you're saying about pre '82, they still have to be non linkage bikes.

[Maico31]

Bahnsy if it absolutely has to be in Black and White then No they shouldn't be allowed to race in the Evo class, but not everyone races for a trophy, some are quite happy to circulate mid pack and just enjoy riding their bikes. And no i wouldn't be happy if i got taken out by a non competitive rider and broke my arm, and i wouldn't be happy if i got taken out by a competitive rider and broke my arm either. But that's racing and shit can happen.

[TM BILL]

Disclaimer :I dont know your rule book and i certinally dont want to change it, these are just my personal opinions

Pre 81 is pre 81
Pre 78 is pre 78
Pre 75 is pre 75
These Eras split bikes into classes that cover the major developments in suspension. There will always be bikes and either end of these eras , and thats the way it was in the day.
If you couldn't buy it in 1980 , 1977 , 0R 1974 then it aint eligible for that class.

Flow on models are Bullshit  this aint back to the future  you cant ride a bike that didn't exist in the class period you are racing.

I think works replicas are great and a credit to the people who take the time and effort to build them Where or do they fit into a class ? fork knows 

But they do have a place in VMX 

[Doc]

without the flow-on rule bikes such as my TS400 would be landfill by now. I can't see a problem with this rule when it states clearly the bike must remain virtually unchanged from the preceeding models. The bikes did in a sense already exist, the calander might have changed, the engine and frame numbers might have changed but the technology and ashetics of the era didn't. I'm biased I guess but if you outlaw the later flow on model then you must outlaw the parts from these models also how could you determin which parts were from what? I think works replica's are great too, otherwise I wouldn't own so many 'zuki's..it says so right here in the advertisment that they are 'the' closest thing you'll get to a 'works replica' an' I believed them!! Roger and Joel don't lie!!

[bigk]

As E74 put it ealier... blah, blah, blah,blah & so on. This really is all too hard and I still believe if it's air cooled, no linkage and drum brake it should be eligible and no scutineer in the world would have any stress. My point is that the rules are grey & fuzzy when you can buy brand new "replica" frames (HL), & shocks etc which have been MUCH improved since the '70's/'80, but can't use a 25 year old air cooled engine design because of one sentence in the rulebook. Which is going to give the most advantage to the average rider, a dirty old big bore 2 stroke engine which most of us can't handle anyway, or a set of adjustable shocks and new improved chassis dynamics? Shocks are classed as consumables, fair enough but frames aren't. I don't believe it's about "cheating" as the cheats will do it no matter what and we probably won't know anyway, but the guy with the big bore evo bike would get called a "cheater" by the rulebook fanatics, which is totally unfair. The rules are strange and ambiguous at best, and the bit about riding them in pre '85 is not right as it is a different "era". DJ you unknowingly opened a big can of worms with the original post and yes it would be a cool  bike to build, ride and see at the races, but alas it seems it won't be.
Cheers,K

[firko]

It would indeed be a cool thing to see in the Evo class if it was a genuine replica. Fitting an '81 450 engine to a '79 250 frame does not make it a replica of, or anything like the genuine article! GMC has delved into some of the differences between the two earlier in the thread and he's only touched on them. The 450/RZ Is merely a cool hybrid built out of components from two different class divisions, no matter how much spin is put on it. The bike should race in the class from which the newest major component comes from which, in this case is the engine, which started life in a 1981 Pro Link Honda CR.....a pre '85 class bike.

I'm still finding the comparison with the HL Yamaha confusing. The HL was a production bike that was available to the public. The Honda RC never was. The HL was if you like, a seventies interpitation of the Rickman Metisse concept. Todays GMC replicas are perfectly fine in my view if the correct components for the chosen class are used. HL's are eligible for pre '78 but the bike must feature pre '78 suspension components to qualify. If the owner uses 43mm forks from a later YZ, it must race in the Evo division.

This discussion is going around in circles. The Evo class was (and still is) sailing along just fine until people with personal agendas started looking for loopholes so they could squeeze in bikes that they built knowing quite well that they weren't eligible for Evo. All of these graphs and proposed revamps don't matter two fifths of fork all to a class that has such easy to follow and control rules already. Stop all of this "what if I" bullshit and just race what you've got in the class that the bike fits into......

[Maico31]

Amen.

[Tim754]

Twomen

[090]

2nd that... passed!

[Yamaboy]

 I think Firko has articulated what many of us have been thinking about these so called replicas. They aren't replicas of anything but the images in their constructors heads. I too was scratching my head over the HL references .
Let's move on now lads. I think this has been flogged to death.

[Doc]

yeah, but what if I.....

...if you want it build it
...if you want to ride it ride it
...if you want to argue eligability turn up and see what happens
...if you think you're hard done simply don't play

easy I love hybrids. I had my RM400C donk in an '84 KDX250 chassis for well over 10 years and it handled and did everything so much better. It was raced a couple of times dirt track against moderns and it actually went very well. 3rd overall on the day beaten by a couple of superfast young guys on a late 90's CR500 and even later model CR250. There are other options if you wish to race it