Author Topic: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?  (Read 73944 times)

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Offline Momus

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2015, 06:29:08 pm »
The relevant rule mentions components available in 1984.

There is no requirement for specific part numbered model identification

By the look of the carbies in the various photos they are die cast production parts, unlike  the big black round slide mixers fitted on earlier HRC motocrossers.


GCR 16.15.13.1.  Acceptable for Pre 85 class are machines and COMPONENTS built up to and including the 1984 model.
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Offline FireKwaka

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2015, 09:28:48 pm »
Thanks Momus, that's the carby I need to run on my Pre 85.
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Offline Hardo

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2015, 09:47:46 pm »
The 84 KX500 has a Mikuni TM 38-85 Flatslide as standard fit AFAIK.

Offline John Orchard

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2015, 09:50:39 pm »
When the rules "what is period", do they mean 'what was for sale on the general market in the period'?
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Offline Hardo

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2015, 10:02:15 pm »
Well if its standard fit on one bike in 84, then it's also an item that was "on the market" in 84.... making it legal to fit to any other bike in the class..... right?


Offline Momus

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2015, 10:28:32 pm »
Quote from: John Orchard
When the rules "what is period", do they mean 'what was for sale on the general market in the period'?



The 13:1 rule is my guide: it makes no requirement for the wide availability of components.

It allows for Simon's USD forks and probably also opens the door  for a legal watercooled 1984 CR500....


GCR 16.15.13.1.  Acceptable for Pre 85 class are machines and COMPONENTS built up to and including the 1984 model.
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Offline Momus

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2015, 10:30:13 pm »
The 84 KX500 has a Mikuni TM 38-85 Flatslide as standard fit AFAIK.
Ditto RM500's
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Offline FourstrokeForever

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2015, 08:26:19 am »
The 84 KX500 has a Mikuni TM 38-85 Flatslide as standard fit AFAIK.
Ditto RM500's

That's it in a nutshell really. If ( and it was) the flatslide was available on ANY 1984 MXer then it is legal to run a flatslide on the Honda.
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Offline John Orchard

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2015, 08:49:25 am »
Yes no argument about running a 'Mikuni' as it came stock on RM's but were the Keihin PJ's & PWK's available for either retail sale or fitted to any bike in 1984 or earlier?
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Offline Nathan S

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2015, 08:50:02 am »
The relevant rule mentions components available in 1984.

There is no requirement for specific part numbered model identification

By the look of the carbies in the various photos they are die cast production parts, unlike  the big black round slide mixers fitted on earlier HRC motocrossers.


GCR 16.15.13.1.  Acceptable for Pre 85 class are machines and COMPONENTS built up to and including the 1984 model.

Correct.
The production 1985+ Keihin PJ was not available as a 1984 model part, therefore it is ineligible for Pre-85 racing.

The works 1984 Keihin flatslide is OK for Pre-85.
The production 1984 Mikuni flatslides are OK for Pre-85 (even on bikes that came with roundslides).

But there is a clear, visible difference between the 1984 works Keihin and the 1985+ production Keihin, which instantly excludes the 1985+ PJ.
It may be possible to submit a request to MA to allow the later production PJ to be accepted on the basis that it is operationally identical and visually very similar to the 84 works part. To give it a fighting chance of success, you'd want to have all the technical data of both works and production carbs, clearly and officially showing that the only difference is the fuel intake pipe.

But that different fuel intake pipe makes it obvious that the works and production carbs are NOT the same as each other.


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Offline Rossvickicampbell

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2015, 12:14:40 pm »
Nathan - I thought MA ruled - a couple of years ago through a protest - that works parts were not legal because they were not readily available to the public?  Are you talking "works" parts?
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Offline Momus

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2015, 01:10:50 pm »
Nathan, Thorpes bike, number 3, has the standard left side vertical inlet for the fuel.

The other photo shows a redrilled inlet entering the same gallery. It is not a design difference, probably just a convenience allowing the very low right side of the tank to drain.

In all other visible respects, right down to the color scheme the carbies look production.



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Offline KTM47

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2015, 03:07:45 pm »
You guys amaze me. Again you are debating something as if what you say is it. Unless MA officially say a keihin flat slide is permitted in Pre 85 that is it. Now they came on the 85 model Hondas which were probably available late 84. So if you can find a 1984 keihin catalogue that has them for sale in 84, there is a good case for MA saying they can be used.
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Offline Momus

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2015, 03:45:08 pm »
This article on Mahlherbe's 1984 HRC is from a Belgian or French magazine.


The inset photo of the engine is accompanied by the bold text that says the carburettor is identical to the production items.

There are other photos from 1984 showing Keihin advertising stickers on the HRC bikes



« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 03:47:34 pm by Momus »
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Offline JohnnyO

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Re: What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2015, 05:08:53 pm »
Several pre 85 bikes raced the 2014 Toowoomba Nats with Keihin pwk carbs without any complaint from scrutineers or other competitors so people automatically assume they are legal..