What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?

[Nathan S]

You pedantic types really do bug me. When did you lot become the be all and all of VMX and the rules pertaining to it Ted? Nathan?

You haven't an inkling of an idea of what was actually available in the way of Carby's before 30/12/1984.

The fact is, any one could of walked into a Honda dealership in late 1984 and purchased a Keihin FS carb. And that, is that. It doesn't matter what bike that carby is in stock for, IT WAS PRODUCED BEFORE THE CUT OFF DATE FOR PRE85.
And you blokes can't tell me that you aren't running cartridge fork internals or emulators in your bikes forks, Or had the whole shebang of the rear shock modified to modern specs, so don't try to argue that any later model "major components" aren't legal. Secondly, How is a carby a "major component"? Last time I checked, a carby is a consumable item when you're talking about vintage stuff. I have any number of totally flogged carby's in my shed, both Keihin and Mikuni. There's even a late model Dellorto PH38 that is flogged.....There's a couple of clapped out Stromberg and Rochesters as well.

You blokes just refuse to see past the end of your own noses.

I'm with BigK. Stop putting 18y olds on vintage bikes to race old men on old bikes at national events. If the kids were really that good at racing MX, they would be in the US or Europe on a sponsored factory ride with the best of everything at their disposal, instead of thinking they are "AWESOME" because they win a race against old blokes, at least twice, if not 3 times their age. All for a $2 trophy and their name in a book.

The rules are clear. PERIOD components. Year models, not dates of manufacture.
This is not news. This is entirely how the rules have been written, interpreted and understood since the start of the sport.
And suddenly Ted and I are the jerks for not saying "yeah, sure, use whatever parts you want, year models don't matter in a sport defined by year models"?!
Unlike the SexMax, I'm not the heretic here - I'm defending the status quo, because (in this case) the status quo makes sense, is accepted and works.

If you really believe that 1985 model PJ carbs should be legal for Pre-85, then it's up to you to put in a submission to MA for them to be accepted. No amount of forum stroppiness or personal digs will change the fact that a PJ is currently not legal for Pre-85.

[Paul552]

Why close it. This clown came on here threatening to smack someone in the mouth. Well I'll accommodate him.

WTF TED?.... I didn't read that anywhere.

I can picture a hoard of self appointed eligibility scrutineers in spectacles & white coats skulking around the pits taking notes, disqualifying bikes for incorrect carbs, forks, seat covers, nuts, bolts & split spins. Then I can see them skwarking blue murder after being punched in the face that's it's all in the spirit of VMX. Too bad these types seem to have forgotten about actual VMX racing, where someone has to get on a bike & ride it to participate in a VMX race. I get beaten all the time in VMX, but it isn't because the guys in front of me have later model forks, carbs or safety seats, it's because they can ride better than me. Another thread to the detriment of the sport for those who haven't already had enough of the BS.
What a load of crock! No wonder VMX is suffering as a whole.
If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it is a duck, isn't it?
Try not to get too bent out of shape you guys, it's just my opinion.
K

Let me know when you want to hold your hands up. I'll be first there.

Of course you would Ted. Mick DIDN"T threaten anybody. Let alone you. He was obviously speaking about how heated things could get if buttons are pushed the wrong way.

You pedantic types really do bug me. When did you lot become the be all and all of VMX and the rules pertaining to it Ted?Nathan ?

You haven't an inkling of an idea of what was actually available in the way of Carby's before 30/12/1984.

The fact is, any one could of walked into a Honda dealership in late 1984 and purchased a Keihin FS carb. And that, is that. It doesn't matter what bike that carby is in stock for, IT WAS PRODUCED BEFORE THE CUT OFF DATE FOR PRE85.
And you blokes can't tell me that you aren't running cartridge fork internals or emulators in your bikes forks, Or had the whole shebang of the rear shock modified to modern specs, so don't try to argue that any later model "major components" aren't legal. Secondly, How is a carby a "major component"? Last time I checked, a carby is a consumable item when you're talking about vintage stuff. I have any number of totally flogged carby's in my shed, both Keihin and Mikuni. There's even a late model Dellorto PH38 that is flogged.....There's a couple of clapped out Stromberg and Rochesters as well.

You blokes just refuse to see past the end of your own noses.

I'm with BigK. Stop putting 18y olds on vintage bikes to race old men on old bikes at national events. If the kids were really that good at racing MX, they would be in the US or Europe on a sponsored factory ride with the best of everything at their disposal, instead of thinking they are "AWESOME" because they win a race against old blokes, at least twice, if not 3 times their age. All for a $2 trophy and their name in a book.

Bit rough re the quote about putting young blokes on old bikes

Aren't young blokes welcome ?


Further to that you have a guy giving young blokes a chance that they probably wouldn't have at his own expense and you bag him?
F$&k me that seems a bit harsh

[gdr]

And we wonder why people are saying F#@& VMX

[Momus]

You pedantic types really do bug me. When did you lot become the be all and all of VMX and the rules pertaining to it Ted? Nathan?

You haven't an inkling of an idea of what was actually available in the way of Carby's before 30/12/1984.

The fact is, any one could of walked into a Honda dealership in late 1984 and purchased a Keihin FS carb. And that, is that. It doesn't matter what bike that carby is in stock for, IT WAS PRODUCED BEFORE THE CUT OFF DATE FOR PRE85.
And you blokes can't tell me that you aren't running cartridge fork internals or emulators in your bikes forks, Or had the whole shebang of the rear shock modified to modern specs, so don't try to argue that any later model "major components" aren't legal. Secondly, How is a carby a "major component"? Last time I checked, a carby is a consumable item when you're talking about vintage stuff. I have any number of totally flogged carby's in my shed, both Keihin and Mikuni. There's even a late model Dellorto PH38 that is flogged.....There's a couple of clapped out Stromberg and Rochesters as well.

You blokes just refuse to see past the end of your own noses.

I'm with BigK. Stop putting 18y olds on vintage bikes to race old men on old bikes at national events. If the kids were really that good at racing MX, they would be in the US or Europe on a sponsored factory ride with the best of everything at their disposal, instead of thinking they are "AWESOME" because they win a race against old blokes, at least twice, if not 3 times their age. All for a $2 trophy and their name in a book.

The rules are clear. PERIOD components. Year models, not dates of manufacture.
This is not news. This is entirely how the rules have been written, interpreted and understood since the start of the sport.
And suddenly Ted and I are the jerks for not saying "yeah, sure, use whatever parts you want, year models don't matter in a sport defined by year models"?!
Unlike the SexMax, I'm not the heretic here - I'm defending the status quo, because (in this case) the status quo makes sense, is accepted and works.

If you really believe that 1985 model PJ carbs should be legal for Pre-85, then it's up to you to put in a submission to MA for them to be accepted. No amount of forum stroppiness or personal digs will change the fact that a PJ is currently not legal for Pre-85.

In other motor sport genres I've seen deep and difficult eligibility questions easily solved by making the in-question component free.
Often the big argument against a new freedom is the cost burden it may place on the rest of the racing fleet. In the case of a carby freedom for pre '85, as opposed say to legalising sequential change gearboxes in a car racing class that has only allowed for H pattern, the cost is almost negligible; no more than a set of new tyres or a pair of fork valves fitted.

This would have to be a possible result of a well prepared submission to MA. 


PWK flatslides are a current model carby and now with throttle position switch and a 10 watt pressure pump supplied, solenoid controlled, power jet to help the midrange. A pre 85 submission would reasonably rule those out.

[Momus]

Why close it. This clown came on here threatening to smack someone in the mouth. Well I'll accommodate him.

WTF TED?.... I didn't read that anywhere.

I can picture a hoard of self appointed eligibility scrutineers in spectacles & white coats skulking around the pits taking notes, disqualifying bikes for incorrect carbs, forks, seat covers, nuts, bolts & split spins. Then I can see them skwarking blue murder after being punched in the face that's it's all in the spirit of VMX. Too bad these types seem to have forgotten about actual VMX racing, where someone has to get on a bike & ride it to participate in a VMX race. I get beaten all the time in VMX, but it isn't because the guys in front of me have later model forks, carbs or safety seats, it's because they can ride better than me. Another thread to the detriment of the sport for those who haven't already had enough of the BS.
What a load of crock! No wonder VMX is suffering as a whole.
If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it is a duck, isn't it?
Try not to get too bent out of shape you guys, it's just my opinion.
K

Let me know when you want to hold your hands up. I'll be first there.

Of course you would Ted. Mick DIDN"T threaten anybody. Let alone you. He was obviously speaking about how heated things could get if buttons are pushed the wrong way.

You pedantic types really do bug me. When did you lot become the be all and all of VMX and the rules pertaining to it Ted?Nathan ?

You haven't an inkling of an idea of what was actually available in the way of Carby's before 30/12/1984.

The fact is, any one could of walked into a Honda dealership in late 1984 and purchased a Keihin FS carb. And that, is that. It doesn't matter what bike that carby is in stock for, IT WAS PRODUCED BEFORE THE CUT OFF DATE FOR PRE85.
And you blokes can't tell me that you aren't running cartridge fork internals or emulators in your bikes forks, Or had the whole shebang of the rear shock modified to modern specs, so don't try to argue that any later model "major components" aren't legal. Secondly, How is a carby a "major component"? Last time I checked, a carby is a consumable item when you're talking about vintage stuff. I have any number of totally flogged carby's in my shed, both Keihin and Mikuni. There's even a late model Dellorto PH38 that is flogged.....There's a couple of clapped out Stromberg and Rochesters as well.

You blokes just refuse to see past the end of your own noses.

I'm with BigK. Stop putting 18y olds on vintage bikes to race old men on old bikes at national events. If the kids were really that good at racing MX, they would be in the US or Europe on a sponsored factory ride with the best of everything at their disposal, instead of thinking they are "AWESOME" because they win a race against old blokes, at least twice, if not 3 times their age. All for a $2 trophy and their name in a book.

Bit rough re the quote about putting young blokes on old bikes

Aren't young blokes welcome ?


Further to that you have a guy giving young blokes a chance that they probably wouldn't have at his own expense and you bag him?
F$&k me that seems a bit harsh

How old are you champ?

[Paul552]

Why close it. This clown came on here threatening to smack someone in the mouth. Well I'll accommodate him.

WTF TED?.... I didn't read that anywhere.

I can picture a hoard of self appointed eligibility scrutineers in spectacles & white coats skulking around the pits taking notes, disqualifying bikes for incorrect carbs, forks, seat covers, nuts, bolts & split spins. Then I can see them skwarking blue murder after being punched in the face that's it's all in the spirit of VMX. Too bad these types seem to have forgotten about actual VMX racing, where someone has to get on a bike & ride it to participate in a VMX race. I get beaten all the time in VMX, but it isn't because the guys in front of me have later model forks, carbs or safety seats, it's because they can ride better than me. Another thread to the detriment of the sport for those who haven't already had enough of the BS.
What a load of crock! No wonder VMX is suffering as a whole.
If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it is a duck, isn't it?
Try not to get too bent out of shape you guys, it's just my opinion.
K

Let me know when you want to hold your hands up. I'll be first there.

Of course you would Ted. Mick DIDN"T threaten anybody. Let alone you. He was obviously speaking about how heated things could get if buttons are pushed the wrong way.

You pedantic types really do bug me. When did you lot become the be all and all of VMX and the rules pertaining to it Ted?Nathan ?

You haven't an inkling of an idea of what was actually available in the way of Carby's before 30/12/1984.

The fact is, any one could of walked into a Honda dealership in late 1984 and purchased a Keihin FS carb. And that, is that. It doesn't matter what bike that carby is in stock for, IT WAS PRODUCED BEFORE THE CUT OFF DATE FOR PRE85.
And you blokes can't tell me that you aren't running cartridge fork internals or emulators in your bikes forks, Or had the whole shebang of the rear shock modified to modern specs, so don't try to argue that any later model "major components" aren't legal. Secondly, How is a carby a "major component"? Last time I checked, a carby is a consumable item when you're talking about vintage stuff. I have any number of totally flogged carby's in my shed, both Keihin and Mikuni. There's even a late model Dellorto PH38 that is flogged.....There's a couple of clapped out Stromberg and Rochesters as well.

You blokes just refuse to see past the end of your own noses.

I'm with BigK. Stop putting 18y olds on vintage bikes to race old men on old bikes at national events. If the kids were really that good at racing MX, they would be in the US or Europe on a sponsored factory ride with the best of everything at their disposal, instead of thinking they are "AWESOME" because they win a race against old blokes, at least twice, if not 3 times their age. All for a $2 trophy and their name in a book.

Bit rough re the quote about putting young blokes on old bikes

Aren't young blokes welcome ?


Further to that you have a guy giving young blokes a chance that they probably wouldn't have at his own expense and you bag him?
F$&k me that seems a bit harsh

How old are you champ?

38.
My son is 11 and he likes riding his 84 cr better than his 07

Should I tell him not to waste his time and just ride moderns?


Funny thing this forum

[Hardo]

Thankfully Paul this forum isnt necessarily any representation of any VMX Committee .... it's just hot air and bs 89% of the time.
Quite entertaining though! 

I also would like this thread to not be closed. I am also learning bits and pieces along the way. 

[Paul552]

Thankfully Paul this forum isnt necessarily any representation of any VMX Committee .... it's just hot air and bs 89% of the time.
Quite entertaining though! 

I also would like this thread to not be closed. I am also learning bits and pieces along the way. 

For sure Hardo.

100% agree.

[Nathan S]

In other motor sport genres I've seen deep and difficult eligibility questions easily solved by making the in-question component free.
Often the big argument against a new freedom is the cost burden it may place on the rest of the racing fleet. In the case of a carby freedom for pre '85, as opposed say to legalising sequential change gearboxes in a car racing class that has only allowed for H pattern, the cost is almost negligible; no more than a set of new tyres or a pair of fork valves fitted.

This would have to be a possible result of a well prepared submission to MA. 


PWK flatslides are a current model carby and now with throttle position switch and a 10 watt pressure pump supplied, solenoid controlled, power jet to help the midrange. A pre 85 submission would reasonably rule those out.

I've seen that too. The problem is that this suggestion undermines the fundamental definition of the class: 1985 model bits in a class that's called "Pre-85".

There is no reasonable cost argument when a new VM is so cheap.

There are multiple versions of PWKs. The original is arguably closer to a PE than the PJ is.

[Momus]

38.
My son is 11 and he likes riding his 84 cr better than his 07

Should I tell him not to waste his time and just ride moderns?

Funny thing this forum

I have no problems getting hosed off by youngsters of 38 and 11.

There is a point at which the older riders on older bikes reasonably become aggrieved at being beaten for a championship by a seeded young rider on a bike he doesn't own and couldn't build.

Cheers Marcus

[Nathan S]

I have no problems getting hosed off by youngsters of 38 and 11.

There is a point at which the older riders on older bikes reasonably become aggrieved at being beaten for a championship by a seeded young rider on a bike he doesn't own and couldn't build.

Cheers Marcus

We hear that a lot around here. Figure out where the line in the sand is, write a workable rule, and have it endorsed by the commission, and you could make a whole lot of people very happy.

As a youngster of a mere 39 years, it seems obvious that the real solution is for age racing to include all bike ages to maximise the number of riders who can enjoy racing against their age-peers...

[Lozza]

1984 works RS 250 what looks to be round slide carburetors, pretty sure the 84 RS 500(underslung tank model) had round slides as well. Good Luck with MA 

[FourstrokeForever]

38.
My son is 11 and he likes riding his 84 cr better than his 07

Should I tell him not to waste his time and just ride moderns?

Funny thing this forum

I have no problems getting hosed off by youngsters of 38 and 11.

There is a point at which the older riders on older bikes reasonably become aggrieved at being beaten for a championship by a seeded young rider on a bike he doesn't own and couldn't build.

Cheers Marcus

I think it's great that a junior of 11 years like his 84 CR better than any modern. Maybe he will be a genuine vintage bike lover and not one of the modern riding young guns that get to ride dads old clunker at a national event just to prove he can roost everybody.
I have 2 mates with sons that ride modern MX and are both incredibly talented (fast) riders. When asked by dad if they want to race vintage, the answer is "NO, I'd be embarrassed to go out and beat guys twice my age and I don't think it's right"  I have a lot of respect for those 2 young men.
One even said that when he gets old enough to appreciate the bikes, he will ride them then.

[Paul552]

My only point is I think it is rough to hammer a guy like Ted for giving a young guy a opportunity that he would not normally have.
 

[KTM47]

As for lodging a protest against a bike before anyone hits the track, well I disagree. No protests should be heard before any actual racing & only then if you're in the top 5 place getters banging bars. Protesting in the pits is utter BS. If you have that little confidence in your riding ability, perhaps it's time to take up golf.
K

Eligibility Scrutineering is a part of scrutineering and therefore any protests RE Eligibility should be lodged within 30 minutes of the close of scrutineering.  It is ridiculous to let someone race their guts out and then exclude them after the last race.  Give them the chance to make their bike legal or find one that is.  This is not just my opinion.  I also asked two level 4 officials at Toowoomba last year and another level four official later on.  The facts are if someones bike isn't legal it shouldn't be in the race.

I do think some leeway the first time could be considered at a lower level meeting, but at a Championship NO!!!!!!

Again this is just my opinion from experience and asking the right people.