Two-strokes set to continue at MX Nationals in 2015 (not VMX)

[Lozza]

I have only seen the same report rehashed since about 08 or so. Direct injection isn't the way to go for packaging and replacing the carby does nothing for emissions.

Even a overbored and/or stroked 250 would need every trick in the book thrown at it to compete with a full house 450F. Main thing would be electronics to tame the power.

[Simo63]

At the Conondale Cup just run yesterday, Yamaha rider Jay Wilson rode a 2015 YZ 250 2/- in the Open All Powers and a YZ 250F in the 250 class.  He said he did it to prove that the 250 2/- should be in the 450 class.

And what he was really saying then was he was instructed by his Yamaha Managers to ride it as hard as he could in the 450 class to try and prove their point ..... 

[JohnnyO]

The Jap manufacturers don't want 250 2t's beating their 250f's because they either don't sell them or have pumped all their development into 4 strokes.
The privateers love them because they can afford to race the series without a major sponsor or rich daddy.. The result is competitive privateers and big fields in the 250 class.
The promoter should leave the rules as they are and eventually the Japs will have to start producing new 250 2t's again if they want to keep winning..

[Nathan S]

The problem is that if the 2Ts are regularly winning then at least Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki (and probably Yamaha) will probably simply withdraw their support.
This is a bad outcome for WEM, so he'll do whatever it takes to keep them happy.

[Slakewell]

What happen to the Ossa?

[Nathan S]

The aborted it. Supposedly because it was too economically risky in the post-GFC world.
But there's a good chance that it simply didn't work as promised. The number of revisions they've had on their trials bike's EFI says that an EFI 2T isn't as easy as it sounds...

They were supposed to be making enduro bikes with (carb'd) GasGas motors instead, but that seems to have died quietly.

[Slakewell]

Speaking with someone who actually worked in the KTM R&D department the biggest thing with FI on 2T was cost.

[JohnnyO]

The problem is that if the 2Ts are regularly winning then at least Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki (and probably Yamaha) will probably simply withdraw their support.
This is a bad outcome for WEM, so he'll do whatever it takes to keep them happy.

Probably.. And its that kind of pressure from the factories that killed the 2t in the first place

[KTM47]

The Jap manufacturers don't want 250 2t's beating their 250f's because they either don't sell them or have pumped all their development into 4 strokes.
The privateers love them because they can afford to race the series without a major sponsor or rich daddy.. The result is competitive privateers and big fields in the 250 class.
The promoter should leave the rules as they are and eventually the Japs will have to start producing new 250 2t's again if they want to keep winning..

That is exactly it privateers can't afford to run 250 4/-s at the front.  It will all come back to Honda, if they decide they want to build 2/-s again they will come back.  It is interesting the 85cc/150cc class is now mainly KTMs and Huskys.  The Honda 150 4/-s appear to be outclassed too.

Just another thing, how much support do the manufacturers give riders in the 250 class anyway?

Please let them pull the limited support and let the true privateers have some glory.

Just another point we need a clubman 125 class too.

[KTM47]

The problem is that if the 2Ts are regularly winning then at least Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki (and probably Yamaha) will probably simply withdraw their support.
This is a bad outcome for WEM, so he'll do whatever it takes to keep them happy.

Wrong!!!!!!!!

Since the 250 2/-s have become competitive for privateers the rider numbers in the 250 class has gone up.  If the distributors withdraw their support, those riders would probably switch to 2/-s GREAT!!!!!!.  Forcing the 250 2/-s into the 450 class would eventually see some riders stop doing the Nationals.

I think WEM wants them there.  This is just my opinion based on reasonable information.

Just another point Jay Wilson was having trouble making one particular jump comfortably at Conondale were the 450s were doing it easily.

[Nathan S]

Surely the manufacturers are a big deal in terms of the money and image they bring - and surely that's particularly important to WEM?

Any professional promoter will be do what makes the most money - and rider numbers are only part of that equation. Further, politics could easily extend beyond the 250 class and into the 450s...

I agree that wha'ts good for the privateers is generally what's good for the sport - but this is professional sport, which is more about money than sport...

[evo550]

I very much doubt KTM has an injected 300. Most adventure bikes now are injected with good reliablity and they were mapped badly and erratic when first released but that's in the past.

Various reports from KTM say that they have a direct injected 2T that is pretty much ready to go, but it makes the whole bike as heavy and complex (and presumably as unreliable) as a 4T, so there's little point.

Yep, they have openly admited it in transmoto and ADB

[JohnnyO]

A couple or years ago when I was working in a KTM workshop Rob Twyerould the head honcho technical guy at KTM Australia told us KTM had an injected 2 stroke ready to go but the market wasn't ready for it yet.

[BultacoMacca]

In the USA though you might still be able to buy a two stroke in California, you are limited to when and where you can ride them, and it looks like you have to 'register' them.

So if the manufacturers still see California as one of their biggest market sales areas, they may be reluctant to go back to developing anything 2t.

And don't forget that Australia's sales market usually doesn't factor much into Japanese overall sales considerations.

Web page for California regulations:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/offroad/ofhwymc.htm

[Lozza]

How come we have not even seen a spy pic or first hand ride reports of the mysterious injected KTM? Cost of EFI, I can buy an Ecotrons kit for $500 so the hardware/software is not expensive, if you want direct injection you have to pay Orbital or Ficht royalties as they hold most of the patents regarding direct injection or you have to develop your own system from scratch.