So…..Why are you NOT racing???

[hoppy]

Those costs sure add up for the events no good for the club I assume would not be able to sustain losses like that.

For me I am just getting back into riding and not really into racing.
I am a member of viper & vcm but I am not sure I would go again mainly the cost of the racing licence is too expensive & couple with event costs makes it not so good bang for your buck.
I don't mind the club cost as I know people are working hard in the back ground.

Am building a vinduro bike at the min as they look like more casual events and more my speed.
Events veri run look really good and lots of fun.

I do go to ride park a lot is $40 a day and you get a fully prepped track.
Try to get to the midweek days as it's not so busy.
Not saying there is anything wrong with the racing tracks as again people work on them all for nicks I expect and do a great job.

I went to Monza Park earlier in the year for the ride day was great fun I really enjoyed it.
Maybe viper should try a couple of days like that, I mean non competitive and see how they are attended.

Cheers Rob

[albrid-3]

I think its time that the viper, CSC, VCM, pull together, and go back to the original formula, the day vintage MX started, which was 6 rounds of the victorian titles.

Viper select 2 of there best tracks, VCM, 2 of there best tracks, CSC 2 of there best tracks. and cut down the classes. and work out a suitable entry fees, and find a suitable insurance. and run all the meetings under aasa, or other. and stop paying these land owners stupid money too.
Track lease for the day.
Gellibrand was $500
Campbelltown was $500
Barrabool $1000 natural terrain (MA)
Lismore is peanuts.
I think this could be all worked out sensibly, but not on here. A meeting should be on neutral ground, and thrash it out. ( no other race meeting in between , just 6 rounds all discipline, same day or 2 day weekend)
 

[VMX247]

The figures do include MA one day licenses, it is an expense and has to be accounted for.
Here is the break down of the weekends event.

Total takings: entry fees, one day rec & race licenses plus a few one day memberships: $5855
Costs to run the event:
Venue hire: $2000   
First aid: $900
Flaggies: $775 
Steward: $200 
CFA: $200 
Toilet Hire: $430
Trophies: $275
MA permit: $150
MA rider levies: $539
MA one day licenses: $1750
Total cost: $7219
Balance = -$1364.00 (DB) to Viper club.
That's without taking into account any personal expense by all the workers & volunteers to whom much thanks is warranted & their time & effort much appreciated. For the most part, the weekend was a big success with those who love grass track racing, having a ball. The racing was close with some ding dong battles by a few. While we don't expect to make huge dollars by running events, clubs should be able to at least break even which seems to be becoming increasingly difficult of late.
K

crazy $$$   :'( for your club

[KTM47]

If they do not turn up as you know that could be arranged. lets see what happens on the day..
money wise the sport is not getting cheaper, all cost keep going up, ambo's, flaggies, tracks, permits ect .

I was using a bit of reverse phycology.  I think Sidecar riders are like kids, if you tell them not to do something they do it anyway.

[KTM47]

I believe the main thing to come out of this is cost, is the biggest factor.

Just another note.  Some clubs can afford to charge less if they own their own land or they a have club member willing to donate the use of the land.

eg  To my knowledge Toowoomba MCC own the land they use.  I believe they bought the land from the money they made running Mountain Man MX in the 70s and 80s.

[Iain Cameron]

With me its having to go back to being self employed . As a owner driver one man show even a small injury is going to be a big pain in the back pocket .
Second my club here in Tassie , merged with a modern club and the VMX riders numbers have been dropping ever since ( and on a personal level I hate prima donna kids the club seems to me to have 80% under 25 years old )
Third , ok to you main landers ( as an ex mainlander I cant believe Im saying this ) from my place to the clubs track its about 240 ks each way . To get there to help at 08:00 then race (flag as if you don't bring a flaggy you have to help ) then pack up wait for presentation as all the kiddies need a gift , finish time around 16:00 then 2 to 3 hrs home unload . then up at 05:00 to start work .
For the Last 2 years I have gone to Broadford at Easter and I will be going again next year .
Don't get me wrong I would still like to race but Im finding collecting and restoration with play rides like CD and BBB are more fun .
Just a note Im 54 years old have had a quad bypass and work 70 hrs a week . So busting my arse to get to a race is somewhat not a big priority it once was . When at the last 3 meets I have been to I have had to flag for at least 1.5 hrs while the Kiddies show up 20 min before racing and leave after their last race no set up , no flagging , no packing up . then the club does not even run pre 70 .
 Iain

[Daryl Jones]

Cost is, of course, one factor.
But this isn't the 1930's, most of use can choose what we want to spend our disposable dollars on.
Dropping the Foxtel subscription will cover the MA licence fee. (but who's going to do that?)

For me it's a matter of the amount of 'pleasure return' on my time, costs, effort, frustration & pain of owning, building, maintaining and competing on vintage dirt bikes.

I work away, my schedule is erratic and prone to change within days.
I rarely enter for events until the last possible moment, to guarantee that I will actually be able to be there and my bikes will be ready to ride. ( Sign-on 'on the day' was once common, but is disappearing due to the organisational pressures)
I miss a lot of events, multi round championships have little draw, as I know I will never manage to attend all the rounds.

 [/quote] eg  To my knowledge Toowoomba MCC own the land they use.  [/quote]

TMCC do own a great chunk of land and are developing their facilities. 
They also charge a 'significant' membership fee, and they have hundreds of members. (Me too, soon).

It's a model for success that's worth considering.

I love racing VMX (have since Dargle in 1991) and will always compete when I can, but the harder it gets, the easier it is to find an excuse to do something else, particularly if it means more riding time.  (Sounds a lot like why I took up riding enduro's in the 80's)

 

[Rookie#1]

Wow, approaching 1000 views and 3 pages of conversation in less than 24 hours. Obviously a topic that many are happy to give their take on, please continue to put your opinions and feedback out there for all to absorb, it really is helpful to those looking for ways to improve and grow attendance at events.

[asasin]

I have to ask the question. Why do you need to have MA involved? surly in  OZ the land of insurance for everthing you could  get a collective cover etc that MA "provides" ? everything else they are there for is fluff.The only difference it seems to me between here in NZ and OZ is the fear you have of being sued , cover that and tell MA to go play in the traffic.
 The numbers involved in VMX in OZ should easily be able to become a collective on this.

[Nathan S]

Australia is FAR more litigous than UnZud.
Any event organiser needs good insurance cover for two reasons:
1. To cover their arse(s);
2. To be gain permission to run the event.

Basically, the way its evolved is that someone gets hurt and then chases who-ever has the most cash. So if the host club is poor, they go after the Clerk of Course personally, or the land-owner, another rider or whoever else they think is the softest, juciest target. Even if they are unsuccessful in their claim, the stress and cost is enough that NOBODY will be willing to stick their head into the noose ever again.

So instead, we pay a truckload in insurance to be a big, soft, juicy target for the ambulance chaser lawyers.

There was a case in Orange, NSW about 15 years ago where a guy crashed and died in his Mini at an organised event. After some years, his widow began looking for cash. After the organising club simply disolved in response to the threat of legal action, the widow and her ambulance chaser ended up trying to sue the then-retired local police commander who had given the event the OK. Needless to say, the new commander was not the slightest bit interested in approving any vaguely-similar events within his command area, and virtually everything stopped for a couple of years until he could be convinced that CAMS/AMSAG insurance was going to be a bigger, softer target than himself...

In most Aussie states, disclaimers mean sod-all. The law changed in NSW about a decade ago so NSW disclaimers mean something - if you sign a disclaimer in NSW that says 'I recognise and understand the risks', it takes away a whole lot of the paths to claim that your crash was someone else's fault. This makes the whole process of suing someone for negligence much more difficult/much more likely to fail, but (ironically) it still hasn't been tested properly - it needs someone to put up the cash and fail before everyone puts their faith in the power of the disclaimer...

Also, good intentions to not sue mean nothing when you've got many thousands of dollars worth of bills to pay and no way of paying them (insert a rant about the NDIS here). Similarly, you might recognise that your crash was your own fault, but your widow (or widower) probably won't have that same perspective.

[Curtis]

Time and money! I spend too much time working on them.
It is still cheap compared to other motor sports but..... one of the reasons I got into old bikes is because thats all I could afford at the time. Now people want stupid money for what is essentially a clapped out old dunger! And it hard and expensive to get parts.

Iv been doing lots of Vinduros one reason being value for money you cant beat it. Also if all the clubs did more interclubs or invites it would save me having to be a member of many clubs because I love all eras and styles of riding, MX to Vinduro, pre75 to pre 95. 

[KTM47]

This is one of the rare times I agree totally with what Nathan has said.

Also have a good look at what the costs are to run a meeting outlined in a couple of previous posts.  The money paid to MA (through the SCB) is not the largest amount.  For clubs who hire a track (or property) that part and first aid are the big cost.  Also try getting the use of someone's property without the insurance coverage MA provide for the property owner.

For those riders who only get a one meeting licence each time.  If you rider 5 or more meetings a year an annual licence is cheaper.  You can also use it at practice days and MA sanctioned ride parks.

Anyway I think the drop off in numbers is a sign of the times.  Clubs and MA should try to improve also, but as riders also try to help you club.

[William Doe]

Quote Nathan S "Also, good intentions to not sue mean nothing when you've got many thousands of dollars worth of bills to pay and no way of paying them (insert a rant about the NDIS here). Similarly, you might recognise that your crash was your own fault, but your widow (or widower) probably won't have that same perspective"

This is always the Elephant in the room we ignore over here , we rely on disclaimers and the fact that nobody will go the landowner etc , but it is getting harder to get property's with this being the general reason .

Of course we have the accident compensation corporation

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2001/0049/latest/DLM99494.html
 
Witch makes life easier .

Different countries and different philosophy's.

We have a motorcycle sport governing body that we as vintage riders choose not to align with as we feel they cannot offer us anything .

Any reduced cost is a help to any competitor .

 

[Slakewell]

I might add . after reading this today I thought it was about time I get off my arse and get a new National license.
After hitting the MA website to find out more I find out it is still the same as it was in seventies. In other words just to much trouble and my apathy wins. In this day and age why cant I just fill in an online form pay by CC and get my new license in the post next week?

[FourstrokeForever]

I also agree with Nathan...yet again 

If the disclaimers we sign (or used to as some clubs don't bother anymore) actually stood up in court, then there would be no need for MA to impose ridiculous fees on any club to hold a meeting. Rider levies.... COME ON, that's just like a fuel levy, and nobody liked that! because it was just another unfair tax. Isn't the cost of a race license (National, Recreation or Day) already a rider levy? Crikey, MA licenses are more expensive than getting a license to drive a car or truck.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't way more people get injured or killed on the road than any motorcycle sport? And don't get me started on the number of injuries EVERY weekend involving AFL......

Doesn't MA have it's own insurance business now? Surely if it wasn't a profitable business to be in, MA wouldn't have touched it. The point is, seeing as MA IS THE INSURER, why do they charge the clubs so much to run an event?

I think it's grossly unfair that the top level of motorcycle sport is subsidised by us recreational, part time racers.

GET REAL MA. GIVE SOMETHING BACK TO THE BACKBONE OF MOTORCYCLE SPORT.... Club riders are the backbone!