79 CR250 Front End Conversion

[sa63]

My 84 husky with J Yamaha forks+TLS brake  was personally scrutineered by DTanner at echo valley (PC Nats) and at the Qld Champs this year. No problem. FACT .

More  OPINION  going on here than FACT, as John K is saying this is not reality!

we all like the look of big forks, only 200 pairs of fox 44mm forks were made hence the price/availability now makes them out of reach - $3k+, there are miles of old drum brake forks out there why not use them ? More bums on seats.

I was over in the UK last year and was discussing racing in the pre 73 European class and the bloke I was talking said the Czech guys were cheating by having long travel suspension etc. I said why didn't you protest? he said that's bad manners and we beat them anyway! very English... I think those who shout cheat here (when its noteven true)  could take a lesson there! Taliban HA!!
Its a technology based class - bring on the hot rods! the fast guys will still win anyway .
Get forked!

[bazza]

LOL

[JohnnyO]

Keep pissing in your mates pocket, you'll eventually convince him it's raining

Our submissions are in, are yours?

As usual....running to the beat of your own drum Ted.

Why don't you show the conviction of your word and share your submission with the rest of us......

It's just a game to him TBM like the RM swingarm issue.. it's the only place he gets his thrills since not being able to ride after the histerectomy and now putting kids on his bikes and hurling abuse from the sidelines... not unlike a soccer mum

[KTM47]

I think we need to stop the personal insults now!!!!

Here are the facts exact dates may not be correct but they are close. EVO was first run in Qld in the early nineties.  When we started the ThunderX series the rules were in the sup-regs.  The following are those rules.

"The Evolution Class is the same as the class in the USA (ie no linkage suspension, air cooled, drum brakes & no cartridge forks) most Twin Shock machines and Yamahas up to 1981 models (approximately) are eligible.  Note:- The machine must have originally been manufactured with Twin Shocks or No Linkage and be within the spirit of the class. "

I don't know what other states did or when they introduced the class.

Thumper Nats were running Twin Shock when it started but then changed to EVO and I believe used the same rules.

It wasn't until the 2004 MOMS that MA introduced the class.  Those rules were written by the Commission.

I do believe the current rules need to change, but not to what has been proposed.  I think all the current Classic MX & DT rules need reviewing, but only after proper consultation with Clubs who are involved in Classic MX & DT.

I have found another section of the MOMS that gives a guide as to how things could go.

It may be too late to go back to what many may think the rules should be, but as I said previously, I'm sure we don't want the class totally bastardised.  Also EVO has got and always has had an era.  It is the period the machine was manufactured.

TBM  I don't mind what you have proposed and that could be the basis for what might occur.  Also EVO isn't the only class that needs clarifying. 

Also I won't be posting on here or anywhere else what I may or may not submit to MA and I don't think anyone else should also.

This thread has been useful (apart from the personal attacks and name calling).  I learnt a long time ago to ignore a lot of that shit, however every now and then I do snap.

One other point the proposed rule changes form the Commission want to change the age groups for the Aust Post Classic MX & DT championships from the EVO classes to Pre 85.  Is that what we want???

Kevin

 

[Husky500evo]

Fair dinkum Ted....you'd point holes in a donut! And to all the others who have followed on with Ted and his ridiculous mindless arguments and interpretations, have you even read the proposed set of rules?

I went to the effort of attempting to have a set of rules without any ambiguity as to what is and what isn't allowed in Evolution class racing. I even asked for the discussion to remain positive and to ad suggestions. Seems there is no keeping some people happy even though they agree the rules are very open to various interpretations.

Here are the proposed rules again. Amendments are highlighted in RED

1) Frame must be of ORIGINAL Manufacture twin shock design. Yamaha non linkage "monoshock" design is allowed. After market twin shock Replica era frames are allowed.
1b) NO re-engineering of linkage design frames converted to twin rear shocks in an attempt to comply are allowed.

2) Any fork, to a maximum of 44mm stanchion is allowed.
2a) Forks must be of ORIGINAL manufacture drum brake design.
2b) NO re-engineering of disc brake design forks in an attempt to comply are allowed.
2c) All forks must be of conventional type. NO USD forks are allowed
3) Brakes must be drum type, front and rear. No disc brakes.

4) Any Engine MUST be Aircooled and be from an original twin shock motocross/enduro frame motor cycle. Engines from Yamaha non linkage "monoshock" motocross/enduro frame motorcycles are allowed.
4b) Engines can be of Four or Two stroke design.

5) Replica after market swing arms are allowed.
 
6) Handle bars must be 7/8th cross bar design fitted with a protection pad.
6a) NO fat bar design handle bar is allowed.

7) Footpegs must be of the folding type with a self returning mechanism.

A chain guide/guard must be utilised and cover the point of chain return onto the rear drive sprocket.

9) All motorcycles must have an effective muffler/silencer fitted.


This is NOT about the CR Honda's. This is about trying to make a clear and concise set of rules to STOP all the BS that goes on just before National events and letting all concerned know, in black and white, what is and what isn't allowed. Regardless of what has been accepted as kosher in the past, there are still those that get their collective noses out of joint and make the current rules into whatever they see them to be.

Mate I like your rules and it looks like we need some in depth rules such as these to stop punters finding loop holes..

   TBM, I like your take on a proposal for the rules as well. The only thing I can see after a quick look, is there is nothing that mentions what sort of carburettors or aftermarket reed blocks that are allowed.
   To be honest, although I am dead against Dutch twinshock style bikes, I have never really had a problem with the use of any air-cooled motor in a frame originally manufactured with twin shocks (such as a CR480 in a CR250RA frame). I think that the Phil Denton Engineering big bore Hondas built for the visiting USA riders at the Farleigh Castle VMXDN are awesome looking machines and are still in my opinion within the spirit of the sport. But I do accept that my viewpoint on this is probably not shared by the majority of Evo class riders in Australia. So yes, I think the the wording of the rules proposed by TBM, clears up most of the grey areas that I can see.   

[gdr]

how long has that handle bar rule been in

[JohnnyO]

how long has that handle bar rule been in

I think it's just a proposal at the moment

[gdr]

This EVO class is getting all to hard

[JohnnyO]

Fair dinkum Ted....you'd point holes in a donut! And to all the others who have followed on with Ted and his ridiculous mindless arguments and interpretations, have you even read the proposed set of rules?

I went to the effort of attempting to have a set of rules without any ambiguity as to what is and what isn't allowed in Evolution class racing. I even asked for the discussion to remain positive and to ad suggestions. Seems there is no keeping some people happy even though they agree the rules are very open to various interpretations.

Here are the proposed rules again. Amendments are highlighted in RED

1) Frame must be of ORIGINAL Manufacture twin shock design. Yamaha non linkage "monoshock" design is allowed. After market twin shock Replica era frames are allowed.
1b) NO re-engineering of linkage design frames converted to twin rear shocks in an attempt to comply are allowed.

2) Any fork, to a maximum of 44mm stanchion is allowed.
2a) Forks must be of ORIGINAL manufacture drum brake design.
2b) NO re-engineering of disc brake design forks in an attempt to comply are allowed.
2c) All forks must be of conventional type. NO USD forks are allowed
3) Brakes must be drum type, front and rear. No disc brakes.

4) Any Engine MUST be Aircooled and be from an original twin shock motocross/enduro frame motor cycle. Engines from Yamaha non linkage "monoshock" motocross/enduro frame motorcycles are allowed.
4b) Engines can be of Four or Two stroke design.

5) Replica after market swing arms are allowed.
 
6) Handle bars must be 7/8th cross bar design fitted with a protection pad.
6a) NO fat bar design handle bar is allowed.

7) Footpegs must be of the folding type with a self returning mechanism.

A chain guide/guard must be utilised and cover the point of chain return onto the rear drive sprocket.

9) All motorcycles must have an effective muffler/silencer fitted.


This is NOT about the CR Honda's. This is about trying to make a clear and concise set of rules to STOP all the BS that goes on just before National events and letting all concerned know, in black and white, what is and what isn't allowed. Regardless of what has been accepted as kosher in the past, there are still those that get their collective noses out of joint and make the current rules into whatever they see them to be.

Mate I like your rules and it looks like we need some in depth rules such as these to stop punters finding loop holes..

   TBM, I like your take on a proposal for the rules as well. The only thing I can see after a quick look, is there is nothing that mentions what sort of carburettors or aftermarket reed blocks that are allowed.
   To be honest, although I am dead against Dutch twinshock style bikes, I have never really had a problem with the use of any air-cooled motor in a frame originally manufactured with twin shocks (such as a CR480 in a CR250RA frame). I think that the Phil Denton Engineering big bore Hondas built for the visiting USA riders at the Farleigh Castle VMXDN are awesome looking machines and are still in my opinion within the spirit of the sport. But I do accept that my viewpoint on this is probably not shared by the majority of Evo class riders in Australia. So yes, I think the the wording of the rules proposed by TBM, clears up most of the grey areas that I can see.   

I pretty much agree with you Mark and also like the Denton Hondas and it wouldn't bother me whether they were in or out..

[foxy999]

Don't believe all you hear john, there's people out there that love causing shit even non members of the club !

[LWC82PE]

3) Brakes must be drum type, front and rear. No disc brakes.

what if someone wants to fit a XS 650 front disc brake hub/caliper etc, lace it to 21" front rim and fit into TT500 forks for example? I have personally seen this on a bike which would have been done back in the day and is just one example but is a lot more period to me than some of the other mods people do.

Can the rules allow/would people want the rules to allow to use disc brakes from Evo legal or older class bikes but obviously still not allow discs from pre 85 bikes ofcourse.There were plenty of evo legal road bike disc front wheels that could be used.

Anyway its just a thought i had and was wondering what other people thought of this considering VMX is supposed to be about reliving the past,although i admit it would be a rare case that someone would want to do such a mod.

[Husky500evo]

One other point the proposed rule changes form the Commission want to change the age groups for the Aust Post Classic MX & DT championships from the EVO classes to Pre 85.  Is that what we want???

Kevin

I don't think that putting the age group classes in pre '85, instead of Evo would be a very good idea. I think that there would be a wider spectrum of rider ages (and especially older riders) in Evo class than pre '85. You would end up with lots of guys in the younger age group, but not many in the older age groups, if it was moved to pre '85 classes.   

[Husky500evo]

how long has that handle bar rule been in

TBM's draft is just a proposal on this forum, on wording to remove the grey areas and I think is as good or better than anything else that I have seen on here. I personally don't have a problem with tapered bars on vintage bikes and I think that in the current rules, handlebars are classed as consumable items, so you can run whatever you want at the moment. 

[bigk]

Without being rude (if possible) LWC, the basic rules of EVO are: DRUM BRAKES, air cooled, non linkage. Why does anyone have to bring up fitting XS650 disc brakes to an EVO bike?
K

[JohnnyO]

One other point the proposed rule changes form the Commission want to change the age groups for the Aust Post Classic MX & DT championships from the EVO classes to Pre 85.  Is that what we want???

Kevin

I don't think that putting the age group classes in pre '85, instead of Evo would be a very good idea. I think that there would be a wider spectrum of rider ages (and especially older riders) in Evo class than pre '85. You would end up with lots of guys in the younger age group, but not many in the older age groups, if it was moved to pre '85 classes.

Taking the age groups away from Evo is a ridiculous proposal..The older eras need age groups as that's where many of the older guys are!
Just look at the over 50's races at the Toowoomba nats, bigger than several of the all in pre 85 and pre 90 classes!
This is another way of turning people away from the Evo class and just another ridiculous proposal from some Einstein without consulting any of the riders!
It's scary the direction this sport is headed...