Author Topic: 2 stroke fuel mixture  (Read 30065 times)

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Offline cyclegod

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2008, 08:00:20 am »
Well thanks lads - I am completely fcuken bambuseled.
I'll start at around 40:1 and ween it down from there - hopefully if anyone is going to Nudgee on the weekend you will see me floundering around there.
Appreciate eveything.............
Craig

Don't guess or figure "near enough is good enough" Check what the factory recommened mix is, then check that your carbie is on stock jetting and start there.
If you need to add more oil, then richen up the jetting as the % oil/fuel leans out as more oil is added
(going from 3%(33:1) to 5%(20:1) means 2% less fuel, if main jet is #250 then go to #260 etc)
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mainline

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2008, 08:16:57 am »
here's my question, having never had an "old" bike in an era when super wasn't available, what fuel do you run and do I need a lead additive?

Offline vandy010

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2008, 08:53:54 am »
mainline,
i just use good old caltex vortex, which is thier premium unleaded with shell oil at 30.1. this weekend i'm going for 25:1 and well see how that goes. i only use the caltex because it's the closest servo to me.
"flat bickie"

Offline Freakshow

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2008, 11:25:30 am »
Whats making you go to 25:1 , are you having issues at 30:1 ?   becareful you dont start heating things up.
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Offline vandy010

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2008, 11:30:13 am »
absolutely no issues with 30:1
but given Lozza's been on about it for ages, and my old mate the machinist {thats always got bottom ends/top ends/etc of bikes sprawled out all over his workbench} is recommending a richer mixture. basically i've run 30:1 for years and have never had a seizure, but if i never try this richer mix idea, how will i ever know?
so i'll give it a go and see if it makes a diff...
"flat bickie"

Offline Freakshow

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2008, 11:44:08 am »
Well richer dont mean more oil ?

It means bigger jets dont it, to carry more volume but in the same ratios. Unless there is another reason - why do they want you to get more oil ? 

Any time i have Run dry if you could call it that is a nip on the ex port side, never on a main bearing.  ANd the best solution to get more oil onto the ex side is to drop some bit holes on the piston to carry up the oil.      Can you explain where you are going with this more oil thing.  im interested in what they are actually asking you to do here, incase its something i should revisit.
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Offline Lozza

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2008, 12:45:53 pm »
Best read what Grodon Jennings says on the matter,you can google his old Cycle World articles and as the 'father' of scientific 2T tuning,Gordon PROVED(on a dyno and lower lap times) all those years ago that more oil = more HP.Simple innit??? As with mx250's example of the 100cc kart that would have shown the best part of a 10% output increase from changing oil ratio's.It has NOTHING to do with seizures as that is FUEL, or lack there of that causes that. Trapped rings are another thing altogether Freaky that is insufficient exhaust bridge relief and chamfering the ring groove and the oil holes will help that but not eliminate the issue.
Jesus only loves two strokes

Offline Freakshow

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2008, 01:27:25 pm »
yep read his stuff, is that the one where he takes the Suzuki or Dt motor and runs it on castor oil for days "does more equal less" or somthing like that ? if so what i got out of that was the bore clearances.  The oil was oil from what i have read in that regard by him. 

HIs big thing that turned the lights on was that 40 thou race clearances were a pile of shit, that you would be in a worse place the more room you gave the piston, even a few jap's did a PHD on that later on and you look at the data and HP was gained by tight tollerances,  the heat didnt build up amoung other things keeping the motor in HP and away from heat failures.

well thats was what i got out of that one.    I dont remember him talking about thicken up the mix though to get more seal, i remeber the one he did on the Dykes rings etc, that was also interesting.   Without rereading the article or another,  Im cant comment on the oil thing really, but im not convienced though that thickening the mix in respect to an older bike is going to have such a dramatic effect on performance in this case, i have to agree with MX250 that suspension and other items would play a larger role, if vandy is chasing lap times. 

Too much oil will also cut HP through Stanction and the oil drag on the piston so its a fine line if your playing in these levels of gain.  I really dont think going to 25: is really going to make much differant to his bike as would a perfectly gapped piston and ring set would.   

not sure where you got the ring bit from but i was talking about runing dry so to speak on the ex side when the piston has pulled (not the ring)  it either was growing hot or not enough oil, since then i have experimanted with feed hole and put the catch marks on the face, and have never pulled a piston on that side since and relating that info if Vandy was trying to oil up just to get more lubrication, he should perhaps be doing that instead.

any way i guess you answered my Quetion to Vandy anyway, i was trying to get why he was going down into more ratio as it wouldnt be for lubrication which what i though was being aluded to, i needed to understand what was actually behind it. 

On that note what's the story with chaps pushing port grooves down in the barrells ? never seen that before but come across a few lately that look like they are trying do some kinda barrel boost by joining the inlet ports to the cases from inside the barrell , whats the theory there ?   ???

« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 01:50:12 pm by Freakshow »
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For sale -  PRE 75 Yamaha MX stuff, frame, motors and parts also some YAM DT1,2,A and Suzi TS bikes and stuff

Offline Freakshow

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2008, 02:03:47 pm »
ohh and as regarding mixing i have always used a graduated 5 lt agricultural jug, they are designed for mixing chemicals so the numbers never rub off or melt you can buy them from those farmer stores and tthe smaller one which i think holds up to 600ml or someting.

So i stick the petrol in the big one and have another little one that i actually melted 5 lines of my own in also and pour the oil in from that.    The 5 litlre jug is easy to mix up and you never have too much mixed at any time and you just pour in the oil in the little jug until you get to the line you want ( each line is per ltre) so if i fill with say 3 ltrs i put in oil to 3 lines, its fast and idiot proof and you never have to guess and its perfectly consistant always.  then i stir with a 300mm chrome shaft i pulled from an old copier.

If you wanted to change the mix on the day you could alway just add a splash more petrol or oil or use an oxygenator or somthing i guess but your base level would be perfect.    I cant say enough how good these jugs are and have been over the years, had the same set over 10 years, and i think they were under $15.     NEver had to throw petorol away and never missed a race because i needed a quick 2 lt refill.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 02:09:25 pm by Freakshow »
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For sale -  PRE 75 Yamaha MX stuff, frame, motors and parts also some YAM DT1,2,A and Suzi TS bikes and stuff

Offline pokey

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2008, 02:25:26 pm »
Ive read several articles by Mr Jennings and a few  by the guys who scored the world speed record  on a rd350 i think it was and they ran heavy heavy on the oil.


How I see it Freaky is the issue with all internal bang  engines or any machine is heat and how best to control the heat.
Oil whilst providing needed lubrication also plays a part in  transferring heat away from areas like the piston skirt etc.

More oil = more heat transference  = more power available not being lost in heat.

Keeping an engine cool is paramount specially for an air cooled 2T engine as it only has the air rushing over the finning and the oil mixed with the fuel. No oil coolers no water jackets.

easy enough way to test the theory is get a dump surplus victa lawn mower and run it flat out on 20:1 and then on 50:1 and see just how hot that engine gets. If your plug wont burn the oil thats prolly your plug or ignition being a bit weak.

Thats pretty well how i see the purpose of oil.


Offline Freakshow

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2008, 02:33:43 pm »
yeP I LIKE YOUr THINKING POKEY, agree the heat is the differance, you just got to figure out how to lessen it via whatever method.

really i guess what your saying is get it in to a point you cant burn it, and thats you ratio for that bike ?  makes sense to me. 
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Offline pokey

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2008, 03:07:01 pm »
Thats about it Freaky, The name of the game is get rid of the nasty heat and get the engine to optimum temp and keep it there. Thats the basics.

 Now just to confuse, Modern synth oils work differently to mineral hence why the manufacturers  state  ratios like 80:1
 I havnt read how Synth oils work to comment  as to if the heat theory applies to them except many Synth oils  were researched by the outboard makers and thats mainly for  californian anti pollution laws not power or engine longevity.

 Over all I think you have it. There is no exact ratio as it depends on your bike , oil type and riding style.

Offline Tim754

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2008, 04:57:06 pm »
Get a four stroke.......................... :D ;)
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211kawasaki

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2008, 08:31:30 pm »
come on you guys, what about oil % to octane ratio?

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Offline holeshot buddy

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Re: 2 stroke fuel mixture
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2008, 08:42:23 pm »
me again i have run 40 to 1 in all my bikes from a husky74cr400 to a 83kx500 and my rm370
no problems pull them down no wear everything working fine 8)
i remember back in 82 we used to run belray at 50to 1 :o
30 to 1 is also fine i usually run my bikes in on that mix then go to 40 to 1
but you can run 30 to 1 ok
remember the manual always likes more oil in there new bikes in the fuel ;D
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