1972 TS185J

[JADERD]

Cheers doc, I'm in no real rush (only 28 ).

The bike doesn't have as much sentimental value as Kawasaki but still want it rebuilt, I want a good decent old bike setup for vinduros, I think this could be it and if all engine work done it would be like new, I could buy another second hand ts for the $400 price but odds are it would need something done too.

If I rebuild this engine do all the stuff I want to still a cheap vinduros bike and I should feel confident to thrash it around.....sound realistic ?


Also managed to get the pin out which I was happy about.

Top end bearing its called yeah, seemed ok, though you replace it anyway.
  Definite movement up n down in rod see vid below.

[Doc]

Thrashing a TS185 around is very realistic. They were possibly the best trail bike Suzuki made in the 70's and  'normally' ultra reliable

[pokey]

Couldnt choose a more reliable and fun bike to play with than a 185.

Pity about that engine, Thats a first for me as the bottom ends on sierras are to my experience bullet proof but i do agree with Docs prognosis and the bottom end has possibly let go.
Now the question is why did that happen?
 Running premix without removing the slinger?
 Forgetting to add oil to the fuel?
Forgetting to add oil to the oil tank?

 Doesnt matter too much now as it looks pretty shagged. Head will work okay but get rid of those chunks in it or they will come loose and pound your new piston. Barrel looks salvalgable depending on current oversize. If its on its last oversize or those grooves are deep ,Wiseco do a piston that may suit.

 Maybe look around for another engine rather than  go to the expense and associated issues of splitting the cases and having the big end pressed apart. Mains. big end & pin. conrod, small end, con rod, piston, rings,  pin,  seals, gaskets and machining.  Its all dollars and time.
 As said previously Ive never seen a 185 engine with a bad bottom end before so if you do find one about all they usually need is a freshen up of the top end. Rebore, piston, rings, pin and small end. easy stuff and cost effective.
Considering how much is required to the rest of the bike Id be saving a few dollars and labelling that motor as spares. i guess it all depends on what you want the result to be and how much your willing to invest, a weekend rider or a concourse with matching numbers.

Good luck with the project

[JADERD]

weekend rider, on rec reg is all i want, so may be best to source another motor, ill keep my eyes and ears out for another motor whilst doing all the simple body work and treat this one as a spares.  As you mentioned i would rather not have to outlay much if any cash to someone else to do the work.  If i get another motor only real outlay is barrel bore etc.

Cheers

[Freakshow]

Will a 73 TM250 or 76 TS250 fit ?  might be able to hook you up with those, just got to pull em out the bikes

[cyclegod]

Will a 73 TM250 or 76 TS250 fit ?  might be able to hook you up with those, just got to pull em out the bikes

Too big for a 185 frame 

[JADERD]

Yeah 185 frame are fairly tiny.

Still deciding what to do so far advice is.

Fix it, shouldnt cost you too much
Stripping the motor you have already got will cost you nothing, only 'specialist' tool you will need is a flywheel puller $25 and even then there are ways around it or im sure someone here can knock it off for you.
You can see what needs replacing and unless its something major like a complete crankshaft then it is going to be cheap.
Rod kit is less than $50 with top/bottom bearings
Gasket set ~$50
Piston kit ~$80
Shop to press your crank $65
Rebore $65

Next option ppl say is buy another motor and just do top end rebuild as generally the TS185 sierra model motors bottom end is bullet proof.

Other ppl then say buying a second hand motor is just a side step unless seen it running in prior.

What are ppls thoughts............im guessing my engine is at the end where it needs a fair bit done as opposed to getting a second hand one cheap and just doing piston rings etc.


remembering i have never split cases on a motor before, have just the standard garage tools and want to limit outsource costs to a minimum.

??

[cyclegod]

Buy the second hand bottom end and always ask if it was run on pre-mix etc to avoid more of the same problems you have. Replace the stator side seal as this one dries out the most.

[JADERD]

sorry if a stupid question but when you say buy the second hand bottom end, you mean buy another motor just missing barrel and piston etc, or still crack my cases use my motor but buy second hand when i get the bottom end etc ?

cheers

[Doc]

Simon, you could go either way. To buy just a bottom end (crankcases with crank and gearbox complete less cylinder, head, piston etc) might cost anywhere between $50 and $150 but without close inspection you could well end up with something that's on it's last legs. 

If you buy a used bottom end it's probably been sitting around for untold years without the cylinder and it only takes a speck of rust on one of the big end needle rollers to put you back in exactly the same position you're in now.

In my veiw, to rebuild yours would be the way to go. At least then you would have peace of mind knowing it's all new. The extra cost wouldn't be a lot. It doesn't take rocket science to split an aircooled 2 stroke engine to have the crank repaired. Have a manual on hand, use the step by step assembly procedure and you will be surprised how simple it is. Particular attention should be paid to keeping the internals spotlessly clean and if for some reason something doesn't feel right then it probably isn't! Lastly, don't rush things

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=86267C09A3452A71!6490

[JADERD]

quick update, havent been on for a while.

My daily "TS185" ebay search paid off, have been looking for a parts bike so as i have spares and the possibility of finding one with an OK bottom end.

Found this one today and quickly rang guy, scored for a low price.

even if motor shagged i score what looks to be a old bassani pipe ? and the kick starter and of course everything else as spares.

Quite happy at the moment






ebay add

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Susuki-TS-185-/130919209181?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&_uhb=1&hash=item1e7b6498dd&nma=true&si=GWXNY%252BAW6qxgpt%252BI1A%252BKxv3dVo4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[JADERD]

Hi All,

Need some advice from the experts.

The bike i bought above scored me a nice exhaust & kick start that i needed and then all the various spares so worth the small outlay.

Pulled the barrel off, barrel is nice and neat, one cracked fin.  The main crank bearing feels tight with no movement at all, though it is swimming in engine oil so there is a a gasket or seals gone somewhere.

I have decided i will take my time and rebuild an engine, questions is which one do i pick.

My orig one i know worked, all gears etc, its bottom end is gone (crank bearing) though no oil leak here, clean, just piston skirt debris inside.

Other engine the crank bearing feels very tight, though swimming in oil, does this straight away void the crank bearing making it useless ?

i know i have to use the same cases in regard to splitting them and putting back together, is the oil soaked crank / bearing / rod useable to transplant into my orig motor if one removed and cleaned of oil has zero movement ?

Any info / feedback would be appreciated as usual.

I also figured i would need a list of special type tools, i plan on playing with motorbikes and other motors all my life so dont mind outlaying for specific tools.

Already have a fly wheel puller i bought a while back

yesterday i have bought (ebay)

Kincrome Impact screwdrive
Kincrome sliding T handle 1/2" so can use my sockets easier
Flywheel / Clutch locking Pulley holder.

i then hopped on Rocky Mountain ATV, a US site and compiled the below list of items that im thinking of getting, postage all up is $50 , same as ordering one of these items via ebay (total incl items $204).  Main expensive items i figured i would need are the crankcase splitter and the bearing puller, grabbed other items as always handy to have on hand.

Does this sound like overkill "shop" tools wise or do most of you guys who do rebuilds own / have made these tools as it makes the whole job a hell of a lot easier and less chance of damaging things ?


Product Description   Price   Quantity   Availability   Notes   Sub Total
    
FMF Pipe Spring Puller Tool
Part # 1046890001
$6.99       In Stock      $6.99
    
Tusk 10 Piece Hex Key Wrench Set
Part # 1134030001
$15.99       In Stock      $15.99
    
Tusk Crankcase Splitter/Separator
Part # 1177390001
$59.99       In Stock      $59.99
    
Tusk Crank Bearing and Gear Puller Set
Part # 1195970001
$59.99       In Stock      $59.99
    
Tusk Snap Ring/Circlip Pliers
Part # 1177370001
$6.99       In Stock      $6

[TT5 Matt]

that oil is proberly oil from the oil tank that has gotten through the oil pump with yrs of sitting,to check though see what the colour is of it and wats left in the oil tank,if they match no probs if not then replace the right hand crank seal.if the donor motor shifts through the gears ok I be tempted to use that then make one out of 2,reasons being your old motor will have bits of piston in the crank bearings which will need replacing along with seals and full gasket kit,where the donor motor will only ned a top gasket kit and a set of rings/pi/
and small end bearing and save splitting the cases though not a big job but abit scarey for a 1st timer

[JADERD]

Hi matt, it seemed to be identical oil in consistency and smell.

In saying that to me it didn't seem like the two stoke oil I'm used to, could be due to sitting for ages or type of oil, it seemed more like engine oil.  I like your idea re. Which engine to use, donor bike does flick through gears ok.  I will take picks over next week or two as I take engine out and tip upside down / remove piston and really check out main bearing tolerance.

I will use my orig. engines side cases though as the donors bikes aren't in as good condition, the left side very outer flat cover must have been smashed at some point and is now made from a pop riveted piece of metal and sealant!, can sort of tell from pics above. Though from looking I can /will change the whole left side cover, not just the flat very outer cover also the main cover as donor bikes has/ will have pot rivet holes in it if I only replace the very outer cover.

I'm assuming from seeing them sold online etc that the outer covers ( clutch / fly wheel) are ok to interchange between bikes ? It's only the main cases that need to be a matching pair to ensure they seal perfect?

Thanks for all info and advice so far.

[TT5 Matt]

yeah the maggie covers and clutch cover are the same right up to the M 75 model then they changed for the A in 76 and not too much rocket science in changing them over to your good covers.at least youll have some of your old motor on it!you might have to adjust your clutch push rod clearance which isn't hard,loosen lock nut   screw in bolt till touching then screw out same bolt 1/4 turn and tighten lock nut whilt holding centre screw