When and where would you protest?

[Tahitian_Red]

Since there have been a few heated threads here about the rules and protesting I thought we should find out when and where you yourself might protest a fellow competitor.  (hopefully this will not be a bigger can of worms)

In another life as the crew chief for my friend's asphalt modified car we were protested after a win.  We lost the protest and the trophy, not because of a performance advantage, but because of a technicality in the rule.  It left a bad taste in my mouth and I never have filed a protest against anyone.

A few years ago I was racing in a 40+ Post-Vintage (Evo) class over a year long season.  I really wasn't interested in winning the season championship, but I was in first place for the series when I traveled to the 5th of 7 races.  When I lined up on the gate for my 40+ race, on my '78 Husky 250CR, I looked for the guy in second place, but didn't see his bike.  Then I looked again and saw his number on an '86 Honda CR250.  Hmmm, he must be racing in the new class for single-disc bikes???  When I look at the results for the first moto I find he was actually in my class.  WTF??  I raced the second moto, got a bad start while he had the holeshot.  I rode hard and got to within 50ft of him at the finish for a "moral victory".  My '78 Husky is a good bike, but I definitely brought a knife to gun fight.

I asked after the race if the new single-disc class was included in the 40+ age class?  The answer was they were not allowed.  I could have nailed him right there, but chose to just have the race director make him aware of the mistake and to insure it did not happen at another event.  I was the only other racer who was eligible to win the championship, so no one else would be harmed by him gaining first place points.

I chose not to protest, but when would you use the nuclear option?  At the last race in a tight year-long series?  When someone's bike was a clear performance advantage to the entire field?  The results can hurt both parties' standing in the VMX community.

[09.0]

Here it raises it's head at a National title event. That is when an Australian title is up for grabs. That is when your bike has to be in order. At club level, others keep fellow competitors in line as they probaly know them and point out the problem and things dont seem to go any further. As we are a small country our numbers wouldnt be any where near a normal club event in the U.S.  For me it would have to be a serious breech in the rules.  I would front the person first. If their attitude was crap I would evaluate the situation from there. If on the other hand I saw a bike that was a thinly veiled later model bike being ridden in an earlier class then I would have no hesitation in making an official protest. There was such a thing in'09 nationals. An rm125c with an alloy tank fitted and alloy arm painted black was racing in pre78. He was one of three bikes protested in that event by the same protestor. It was certainly a wake up call for competitors here that their bike had to be in order. I would never protest a bike because it didn't have restricters on standard suspension or if it was a genuine mistake ( newby to the sport).

[Taka 100]

I would never protest full stop. being over 55 yrs myself i probably have a different perspective about the whole issue are we just going down the same old path again  as the usa (as usual it normally takes 5-7years to catch up )pushing a good thing into professional and semi professional ranks (as before and failed and lost most of the privateers) that most money/best team /sponsorship " wins "thats why most of the people i have know in the sport through the 70's and 80's got as far away as possible from the bike scene , i know at the the end of the 70's running mx and short circut bikes became a $10-20K slug to be competitive then the 80's that just started the rot and i think protesting anything in vmx is a lot of bull , sure have classes and period correct bikes but the protesting should be done with scutineering and the amount of cash it takes to ride and have licences it should be up to the governing body to do the 'good job' on this and have people who have knowledge and expertise in these area , not just a rule book shoved in the back pocket, so you would'nt have to worry your little minds and dont have to run around seeing if anyone has an avantage over you , i think it would be missing the point of why we are here , and my thoughts on sponsorship is that only events gets sponsored and as far as individuals go in a vmx world is that you pay your own way, afford what you can do yourself and give the deals that come your way to charity or clubs for better events and enjoy your riding whether it be up front or behind the pack, i suppose we all have to ask ourselves why was there a vmx movement to start with was it partly the fact that we had been down this path before and it failed for many who got pushed out of the sport financially and it was a way for us to get back to what we love doing , so as far as protests and 'titles' go they were way back when these bikes where new  and the only classes were 125, 250, open

[paul]

how many official protest,s have happened ,let say at the last 3 ozzy  titles ?  some one must know

[Nathan S]

090's pretty much nailed it, in my opinion.

Personally, I've seen a 175 race as a 125 (at a club event). I wasn't real impressed, but I waited to see how fast the bike/rider was before saying anything to anyone. Turned out that they were well down the pack, so I kept my mouth shut.
The same bloke also has a same-era 250 race bike, so I understood why he raced the 175 as a 125 (even if it wasn't legit). In hindsight, I should have offered him a 125 top end so he could have raced the 175 legitimately in the 125 class, but I haven't seen the bike since.

[crankpin]

You should only ever protest when the Marquiz offers out a bowl of Ferrero Rocher... Oi Marquiz... where's the beer???

[09.0]

I would never protest full stop. being over 55 yrs myself i probably have a different perspective about the whole issue are we just going down the same old path again  as the usa (as usual it normally takes 5-7years to catch up )pushing a good thing into professional and semi professional ranks (as before and failed and lost most of the privateers) that most money/best team /sponsorship " wins "thats why most of the people i have know in the sport through the 70's and 80's got as far away as possible from the bike scene , i know at the the end of the 70's running mx and short circut bikes became a $10-20K slug to be competitive then the 80's that just started the rot and i think protesting anything in vmx is a lot of bull , sure have classes and period correct bikes but the protesting should be done with scutineering and the amount of cash it takes to ride and have licences it should be up to the governing body to do the 'good job' on this and have people who have knowledge and expertise in these area , not just a rule book shoved in the back pocket, so you would'nt have to worry your little minds and dont have to run around seeing if anyone has an avantage over you , i think it would be missing the point of why we are here , and my thoughts on sponsorship is that only events gets sponsored and as far as individuals go in a vmx world is that you pay your own way, afford what you can do yourself and give the deals that come your way to charity or clubs for better events and enjoy your riding whether it be up front or behind the pack, i suppose we all have to ask ourselves why was there a vmx movement to start with was it partly the fact that we had been down this path before and it failed for many who got pushed out of the sport financially and it was a way for us to get back to what we love doing , so as far as protests and 'titles' go they were way back when these bikes where new  and the only classes were 125, 250, open

Um, what? I can't see what happened through your eyes back in the seventies has anything to do with what's happening now. To disagree with you saying mx was getting to dear, I say what a crock. Pick up a bike from your dealer and go race. If you were fast you did well. Do well enough to get noticed by a professional team and you have a sponsored ride. Mx is probably the most inexpensive form of motor sport there is. Vmx is even cheaper. If you do not understand the reason why we need to separate eras and preserve them then you miss the whole concept of vmx. Also it is up to the whole Vmx community to help keep others in line, not just the powers that be. At a title meeting there are only one or two that can officially adjudicate on bike legalities. To think they can know everything on every marke from every era is ridiculous .

[IT490K1983]

If people are prepared to cheat and not follow the rules, bar them from participating. We need to have rules in place or else its anarchy. Every sport/hobby/pastime has regulations of some kind. When the rules are sorted and the people who don't want to follow them have been identified, go racing and have a ball. I do think keeping it as simple as possible is a benefit to all. Oh for the good old days where life was simple and so were the people. 

[Rossvickicampbell]

IT - I think I still know some simple  people 

[211kawasaki]

the best I have seen was a B44. Engine # said 1961 B40, no distributer, no casting for it even, points, 11 fin alloy barrel (B40 has 10) when I showed the technical officer of the BSA owners club the pictures and said they want me to believe its a B40 he laughed (out loud) and thought I was pulling his leg. Great rider - could have won on a scooter.
Have seen this before, had a TM125 at a nationals which had a 5 stud RM engine in it stamped TM125, there are casting differences if you know what to look for on the bottom end.
2 of the better attempts - genuine cheats.

Some guys make honest mistakes, some make genuine attempts at ripping off the system.

[Taka 100]

who said no rules , rules are great let me clarify back in the day there were classes not nit picking about political correctness that seems to be a modern trait



and whats wrong with scrutineers who actually stand fast, know what they are talk about and say 'NO its not right , go play somewhere else' for all the title chasers could focus on the prize maybe here's a thought pay them for their expertise  instead of looking for volunteers

[TM BILL]

In 99% of cases i would have thought a word with the individual involved ( as Brad has suggested ) would be the first point of call .
However thats generally gonna end in one of 2 ways , if they are genuinely unaware they will probably but not in all cases seek anothers opinion then concede and try to rectify the issue. Or they will get all defensive and a shit fight or even a Blue may ensue 

If they know what their doing is wrong their probably gonna get defensive off the bat and a shit fight or Blue will ensue , or the more unlikley scenario is that they put their hands up and say you got me ill put it right or withdraw my entry .

The danger of this approach is if it goes pear shaped and a shit fight occurs , officials are likley to jump in after the fact and possibly hit both parties with a missconduct charge and may well exclude both parties from the meeting 

Often its not the person with the offending bike that kicks off but a mate or mates  I repo a lot of cars and its the same thing , hangers on start the trouble .

In an ideal world all Scrutineers would be up with the play and a word in their ear should be enough for them to have a basic look over a suspect bike without all the drama of a protest .

However i have witnessed this approach be turned away and the concerned party told to lodge a formal protest 

A mate lodged the protest at the Connondale nats witch he won, but he was acosted straight after by a mate of one of the protested people ( i dont think the protested party even knew his mate was kicking off )

There was a lot of Bitchin on here over it for a while , but one of the protested bikes was in that trim 2 nats earlier at Coffs and the others i had seen at club events earlier in the year .

Why they were never advised officialy or unofficialy prior to the Connondale nats i dont know 

But the reality is it took both balls and a few quid to lodge those protest and did leave a sour taste for some afterwards , but that issue has now been addressed .

I would have thought that if its fairly obvious as in the Connondale protest then a word with an official should have been enough .

When would i personally protest an eligibility issue ? i suppose if it was the difference between winning or losing a Title , and i was sure the alleged infringiment was what made the difference .

I still believe its 85% rider and 10% bike and 5% luck 

[Marc.com]

I am all for discretion and the scrutineers being cool with honest mistakes or a little flex on rules that don't quite line up.... cuts both ways and the riders who are taking the piss, stamping motors, disguising parts and cross dressing to ride the women's titles, need a freaking good kick in the nuts and a protest is one way of doing it at national level..... assuming it effects the outcome of the title and is worth the grief..... I mean you also want to achieve something that has a point not just jar everyone off.

I mean it has me furked, there is always one anorak in the crowd at every VMX meet that has more expertise on your bike than the manufacturer....so not like you are going to slip something by, without someone with a Phd in pre 78 YZ part numbers or BSA singles springing you.

 

[Taka 100]

the question still remains at the end of the day ' is it in the spirit of vmx that protests on equipment even exist' , when it could be nipped in the bud at the time you wheel that little sucker into the pits and go through proper era correct scrutineering ,and if you are the one put on the spot tuff titties watch from the grandstand you knew what was required its a very simple process and yes all us simple people understand that
 
the judges decision is final and no more correspondence would be entered into, food for thought

[09.0]

the question still remains at the end of the day ' is it in the spirit of vmx that protests on equipment even exist' , when it could be nipped in the bud at the time you wheel that little sucker into the pits and go through proper era correct scrutineering ,and if you are the one put on the spot tuff titties watch from the grandstand you knew what was required its a very simple process and yes all us simple people understand that
 
the judges decision is final and no more correspondence would be entered into, food for thought

no one person knows everything about every bike as I already said regarding this. Too many bikes, too many eras to know everything. What do you know about Bsa's? Triumphs, cz's, Hodaka's, ossa's? etc. one person is put in charge of eligibility . That is why it has to be done by us collectively .  You may be a Yamaha expert and spot a glaring issue with a bike that others may miss that is blare t cheating like a 175 barrel on a 125 or such.