Simons for pre 78?

[Simo63]

I'm sure there is a great one liner in here about it's not the length .. it's how you use it 

[Nathan S]

Bill, I've been to three out of the last five Nats and have never seen any bike be measured for suspension travel.

Back in the day, I saw five blokes lean on the back of a pre-75 bike, while the sixth bloke measured from a seat bolt to the rear axle.

I totally agree with your sentiment too... You should try rallying in the ACT if you want to meet some scrutineers with big sticks and small dicks... can't say I've had any dramas at VMX, but then again, I'm a much easier to get along with bloke than you are... 

[Slakewell]

If I cant turn up and ride my standard bikes without any hassle to put it simply I just wont bother to enter.
Rules are rules but a big part is how they are enforced. I've had to many shit fights over the years to bother fighting this type of attitude from oficaldum. Sounds like this years Nats might be best to stay home.
Scrutineer for safety and let people ride. If some nong is cheating badly they will get protested.

[lucien]

If you dont accept the rules that everyone does , just stay home, we don't need your bull shit  at these meetings ,
Change the rules if you want,  there are ways to do it ,if everyone agrees to have longer travel ,get off your arse and make it happen ,

[TM BILL]

Nathan, Jikov has already stated that quote "If you are thinking of entering on a Pre 78 bike  that has more than 9 inch suspension ( for the Aus Nats at Qld Motopark) , make sure you bring a comfy chair , you won't be protested , because you won't be riding" end quote .

Fair enough but seeing as jikov has made the statement maybe he can explain how HE is going to measure the travel so others can measure in the same way PRE EVENT so there is no confusion at the event .

Lucien i have no problem with rules  I have a HUGE PROBLEM with little blokes who use the rule book as a penis or riding ability  substitute .

If you are going to enforce rules then be open about how you interpret the rule PRE EVENT .

I dont agree with the ridiculous rule of altering bikes that were available in 1974 or 1977 but i have no intention of trying to change the rules either .
 

I will agree to disagree and abide by all the MA rules . But it would be nice to turn up to an event having been given in advance the Official  ( is there even such a thing or is it another gaping hole in the system ) formula that will be used to measure suspension travel so as we are all on the same page .

Quote Lucien “  we don't need your bull shit  at these meetings “ unquote

No mate but you need numbers or you aint got an event  and the majority of the bullshit comes from untrained and unfamiliar with the rules officials who want to make a name for themselves (I can think of a few ) making it up as they go along .

Its the bullshit ambiguity and amateur attitude of some that keep people away from these meetings , so Lucien ole mate you might just get your wish   

[Simo63]

 ie . detuned to 9" . Steve Wise's stock forked SX RM 250 had a fork kit and foxshox and swingarm for about 10" travel, 10.5 in the final 77 version .His 77 Cliff White CR125 had 10" and 10.5 .
Any stock 77 250/400 YZ has more than 9" , with a period correct alum swingarm ( 35mm longer) it has even more .

So I  have just read most of this thread because I am considering entering the pre '78 Nationals this year on my 77 YZ250 but if I'm reading right I can't in it's stock standard form?  I actually have to limit the original suspension travel to 9 inches !!!

Is that right?  Is there someone that can give me a definitive answer here?  Someone I can call or that can check the bike before I go to anymore trouble and expense preparing it for the event?

I must be wrong .. that can't be right can it?

[Nathan S]

If you dont accept the rules that everyone does , just stay home, we don't need your bull shit  at these meetings ,...

Really?!
Bill's bullshit is usually amusing and interesting, even on the rare occasions he's wound up about something (like when people say nasty things about Bindi Irwin).

The fact that about half of the 1977 model MX bikes came standard with more than 9" of suspension travel has been discussed many times - but nothing has ever come of it, because everyone knows it's a bullshit rule* and eveyone 'forgets' to check on the day.
Every Nats I've been to has had lots of stern words about compliance with the rules beforehand, but when it comes to it, the event organisers aren't stupid enough to stop people riding over trivial crap like having standard suspension in your bike...

The threats are empty.

If it was more than an empty threat, Bill's question would have been answered clearly and concisely by now. The thing is, there's no specified way to measure the suspension travel, so anyway that the scrutineers choose measure travel will have significant room for dispute... You'd be very, very brave (ie: Stupid) to send someone home from a National Title event because you measured their stock pre-78 bike at 9.75" of travel, using an unspecified method. (ref: the Vern Grayson incident and the damage it has caused).

Hell, if Jikov was serious, he would have threatened to bump the guys with too much travel into Evo, not to make them sit out the event.

So let's return to normal programming: Lots of chest-beating that will come to nothing on the day, provided you don't make too much of a fuss now...  

*Remembering that the rule was cut and pasted from the AHMRA regs - and AHMRA have since changed their rules to reflect reality.
Its different to the pre-75 7/4" rule which was specifically affects two models of bikes (1974.5 Maico and YZ-B), which arguably were outside of the basic intent of the pre-75 class (ie: short travel bikes).

[TM BILL]

 ie . detuned to 9" . Steve Wise's stock forked SX RM 250 had a fork kit and foxshox and swingarm for about 10" travel, 10.5 in the final 77 version .His 77 Cliff White CR125 had 10" and 10.5 .
Any stock 77 250/400 YZ has more than 9" , with a period correct alum swingarm ( 35mm longer) it has even more .

So I  have just read most of this thread because I am considering entering the pre '78 Nationals this year on my 77 YZ250 but if I'm reading right I can't in it's stock standard form?  I actually have to limit the original suspension travel to 9 inches !!!

Is that right?  Is there someone that can give me a definitive answer here?  Someone I can call or that can check the bike before I go to anymore trouble and expense preparing it for the event?


I must be wrong .. that can't be right can it?

Good luck with that Simo    Jikov has thrown down the Gauntlet   so im sure he will have the answers we all desire  

[TM BILL]

If you dont accept the rules that everyone does , just stay home, we don't need your bull shit  at these meetings ,...

Really?!
Bill's bullshit is usually amusing and interesting, even on the rare occasions he's wound up about something (like people say nasty things about Bindi Irwin).

The fact that about half of the 1977 model MX bikes came standard with more than 9" of suspension travel has been discussed many times - but nothing has ever come of it, because everyone knows it's a bullshit rule* and eveyone 'forgets' to check on the day.
Every Nats I've been to has had lots of stern words about compliance with the rules beforehand, but when it comes to it, the event organisers aren't stupid enough to stop people riding over trivial crap like having standard suspension in your bike...

The threats are empty.

If it was more than an empty threat, Bill's question would have been answered clearly and concisely by now. The thing is, there's no specified way to measure the suspension travel, so anyway that the scrutineers choose measure travel will have significant room for dispute... You'd be very, very brave (ie: Stupid) to send someone home from a National Title event because you measured their stock pre-78 bike at 9.75" of travel, using an unspecified method. (ref: the Vern Grayson incident and the damage it has caused).

Hell, if Jikov was serious, he would have threatened to bump the guys with too much travel into Evo, not to make them sit out the event.

So let's return to normal programming: Lots of chest-beating that will come to nothing on the day, provided you don't make too much of a fuss now...  

*Remembering that the rule was cut and pasted from the AHMRA regs - and AHMRA have since changed their rules to reflect reality.
Its different to the pre-75 7/4" rule which was specifically affects two models of bikes (1974.5 Maico and YZ-B), which arguably were outside of the basic intent of the pre-75 class (ie: short travel bikes).

Thanks Nathan and thats my point  it really forks me off when people like Michael who do hold a position of authority at these events comes out on a forum and makes big arsed statments like that when he has no proven way of enforcing what he spouts 

Is it scaremongering  (trying to drive people away from title events ?) or a miss guided attempt at getting people to not turn up with obviously illegal bikes  ?

 Forking stupid rule that needs to be addressed asap but i dont see that happening anytime soon with all the beaurocratic hoops one has to jump through just to be heard .

Would make more sense to THINK a rule through thoughly and all its potential  ramifications before putting it in the rule book to start with 

you gotta love that Bindi 

[Tahitian_Red]

I always thought no more than 9 inches could legal be interpreted as less than 10 inches, since it doesn't say 9.0 

[JohnnyO]

If you dont accept the rules that everyone does , just stay home, we don't need your bull shit  at these meetings ,
Change the rules if you want,  there are ways to do it ,if everyone agrees to have longer travel ,get off your arse and make it happen ,

Pull your head in.. They are asking a legit question. Attitudes like this don't help anyone

[TM BILL]

I always thought no more than 9 inches could legal be interpreted as less than 10 inches, since it doesn't say 9.0 

Red thats one interpetation  but what we need is what the big stick wavers interpretation is and how they propose to measure it 

[Slakewell]

 ie . detuned to 9" . Steve Wise's stock forked SX RM 250 had a fork kit and foxshox and swingarm for about 10" travel, 10.5 in the final 77 version .His 77 Cliff White CR125 had 10" and 10.5 .
Any stock 77 250/400 YZ has more than 9" , with a period correct alum swingarm ( 35mm longer) it has even more .

So I  have just read most of this thread because I am considering entering the pre '78 Nationals this year on my 77 YZ250 but if I'm reading right I can't in it's stock standard form?  I actually have to limit the original suspension travel to 9 inches !!!

Is that right?  Is there someone that can give me a definitive answer here?  Someone I can call or that can check the bike before I go to anymore trouble and expense preparing it for the event?

I must be wrong .. that can't be right can it?

Yes the YZD had more than 9" in fact the list is shorter to find 77 models that didn't have 10'

[Rossvickicampbell]

Nathan - whilst not being checked for travel my YZB has been checked to ensure it had a limiter installed at a recent Nats?  Wouldn't be nice to go all that way and incur expense to not get a ride - but lets not shoot down these Nats either before they get off the ground?

Rossco

[Nathan S]

Interesting to know that, Rossco. 

If the idea is to make these Nats successful (and I'm all for that), then perhaps the event organsiers might want to rethink how they communicate with the punters?