Author Topic: Firko's new flat tracker  (Read 23145 times)

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Offline pancho

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2011, 08:57:17 am »
 'Onya Mark!
 How about that pipe! Never seen a 'pong box' AND megaphone combo before!
 cheers pancho.
dont follow me i'm probably off line!

mx250

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2011, 09:41:44 am »
'Onya Mark!
 .............. megaphone combo before!
 cheers pancho.
Although it's a megaphone in shape it is actually one of those multi disc variable mufflers. It looks a very 'period correct' pipe - pretty rudimentary, no 'belly' etc.

Offline firko

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2011, 05:27:22 pm »
Wal..the 'mega' is, as Graeme says a Supertrapp muffler with adjustable/removable discs to supposedly lessen noise and to 'tune' the amount of back pressure. I'm not so sure about the tuning factor but they work pretty well in the noise abatement department. I was told by the bloke who sold it me that it's a Jemco flat track pipe that had been fitted to an MX360 powered flat tracker. It's got no fat belly as AHRMA don't allow 'fatty' centre sections or tapered header pipes. It seems to work OK but we won't know 'til the bike does some serious action. The pipe's got a few dings so it'll hopefully be replaced later down the line.

'68 Yamaha DT1 enduro, '69 Yamaha 'DT1 from Hell' '69 DT1'Dunger from Hell, '69 Cheney Yamaha 360, 70 Maico 350 (2 off), '68 Hindall Ducati 250, Hindall RT2MX, Hindall YZ250a , Cycle Factory RT2MX flat tracker, Yamaha 1T250J, Maico 250 trials, '71, Boyd and Stellings TM400, Shell OW72,750 Yamaha

Offline bazza

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2011, 07:36:42 pm »
Marky those discs in a super trapp on my Xl 4 stroke really made a difference when you play with them.Baz
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Maico - B44 -1976 CR250- 66 Mustang YZF450,RM250
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Offline JAP 454

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2011, 08:53:11 pm »
Hey Pancho
I haven't heard the term " Pong Box " for a loooong time, could that be something to do with our longevity ??
Foss

Offline pancho

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2011, 10:40:41 am »
 Foss what about the fact that 2/s are full of "ung-dungs"..... thats what makes them run!
cheers pancho
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Offline firko

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2011, 07:01:20 pm »
FLAT TRACKER UPDATE:
I've finally had the time to pull the top off the engine and it's a real surprise. The seller told me it was a 'DT1MX' engine which could mean anything as the MX and garden variety DT1 shared the same engine numbers. Externally it was obvious that it at least had a GYT centre plug head so you can imagine how stoked I was to find, upon pulling the head and barrel off, a fresh, unused rebuild. The bore's as fresh as a daisy with nice new hone marks, the piston is used but it's got new rings and what seems to be a new little end. Best of all however is the excellent porting job that's easily as rad as my Warren Willing ported DT1 from Hell cylinder.
The transfers are opened up quite a lot and are blueprint matched to the case ports. The boost ports are huge and although the inlet is not as radical as on the Willing barrel, the exhaust used a totally different set of ideas. I'll photograph the two cylinders along with a stocker to show the work gone into it. Whoever set this engine up knew his stuff. I'll fit a new single ring .75 over piston and a Webco head and replace the points with PVL or DT400CDI....whichever works best.

I've had the detectives on the job identifying the frame and we're no closer to an answer. All of the evidence was pointing to a PDV (Powerdyne), a Taiwanese made mild steel Champion copy originally fitted with a Chinese DT1 clone motor but a few things contradict that theory. The first and most important in my eyes is that PDVs are MIG welded mild steel and painted while mine is beautifully TIG welded and chrome, not nickel plated. I don't know what steel it's made from but I can see that it's very thin walled tube and very light...signs that lead me to think it's 4130 chro-mo. Other details pointing it away from being a PDV are the engine mounts on mine are far better mounted than a PDV and the rear mount is gusseted, nothing like the PDV or Champion, the frame gussets are a different shape, the swingarm pivot area is different, the rear brake pivot is totally different and the footpegs and brake pedal on mine is mounted on a bolt up alloy plate while on a Powerdyne they're welded to the frame. Another point is that the Powerdyne has a rear loop while mine stops at the top shock mount. I looked really closely with a magnifying glass at the area to see it it's been chopped off after manufacture and it can clearly be seen that if it was cut, it was before the frame was chromed. Interesting also is the 0001 frame number stamped on the steering head, in a totally different place and numbering sequence that PDV used. The words "Dan the creator" are tig welded to the swingarm prior to it being plated which also points it away from being a Powerdyne. I've placed it on the 'Information Wanted' section of vft.org but after 3 months up I've had only one reply...to tell me that it wasn't a Champion and that it could be a very early Redline but I personally doubt it. Although the overall design is pretty close to the Champion and Powerdyne, I don't thinK it's either. It's kinda like the bastard son born from a Champion and Powerdyne mating ;D. The bottom line is that I think this bike is too well made to be a Powerdyne.

Because I'll be on crutches for most of the year, Yamaico Pete Rowlands will ride it at the Nats later in the year. He'll also be making the down pipe based on the dimensions of my very efficient Pete Reynolds up pipe on the DT1 from Hell. I'm hoping to have it and the Hindall RT1 at the Bonanza in April.
Not difference in pedal placement between PDV and my frame. Not also the different swingarm pivot gusset shape

« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 07:14:21 pm by firko »
'68 Yamaha DT1 enduro, '69 Yamaha 'DT1 from Hell' '69 DT1'Dunger from Hell, '69 Cheney Yamaha 360, 70 Maico 350 (2 off), '68 Hindall Ducati 250, Hindall RT2MX, Hindall YZ250a , Cycle Factory RT2MX flat tracker, Yamaha 1T250J, Maico 250 trials, '71, Boyd and Stellings TM400, Shell OW72,750 Yamaha

Curly3

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2011, 07:13:15 pm »
What class will that fall into Firko?

Offline firko

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2011, 07:22:16 pm »
Quote
What class will that fall into Firko?
Steve, I'm hoping pre 70 if I can substantiate the frames D.O.B. If not pre '75.
'68 Yamaha DT1 enduro, '69 Yamaha 'DT1 from Hell' '69 DT1'Dunger from Hell, '69 Cheney Yamaha 360, 70 Maico 350 (2 off), '68 Hindall Ducati 250, Hindall RT2MX, Hindall YZ250a , Cycle Factory RT2MX flat tracker, Yamaha 1T250J, Maico 250 trials, '71, Boyd and Stellings TM400, Shell OW72,750 Yamaha

Offline Graeme M

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2011, 07:30:09 pm »
That's a real nice bike Mark and how cool that the engine is a piece of work? I shall look forward to seeing it on the track here for the DT Nats!

Curly3

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2011, 09:10:38 pm »
That may mean I'll be riding the T20 against Pete and he'll be building my engine :-\
Nah I've got no dramas with that, the more the merrier, hopefully it'll squeeze into pre70.

Offline yamaico

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2011, 10:40:52 pm »
That may mean I'll be riding the T20 against Pete and he'll be building my engine :-\
Nah I've got no dramas with that, the more the merrier, hopefully it'll squeeze into pre70.

Don't worry Steve, you're motor will be OK. The arrow on the top of the piston points towards the inlet port, right? ;D ;D

Offline Freakshow

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2011, 10:41:34 pm »
i doubt you will find its pre 70, only a couple of guy had access to them first motors, the rest had to wait till the were in the showrooms and then modded the stock frames.   IF you can prove a Champion frame as pre 70 then you could use that as your carry over or as like frame based on the similarity to the Stock DT1 frame geo, but thats a DTanner discussion with the new rules on frames opening up.  rear wheel looks like a stock 73MX so it looks more like its gather bits along the way.  I would like to see a close up the swing arm rear, the section of the frame where the airbox is and is there a number on 4 digit number on the head stem ?

Great buy for what you paid, but i told you that when i seen the GYT barrell previously

I would use the current head firko and not the Webco, if you running it on the short curcuit.  HAd some long chats with Neil keen a few year ago and although alot of his engineering discussions where over my head there where a few things i did understand.  Check the cc on the GYt and then the Webco when you do the maths on it youll see why im suggestign stcik with it.
74 Yamaha YZ's - 75 Yamaha YZ's
74 Yamaha  flattracker's
70  Jawa 2 valve speedway's

For sale -  PRE 75 Yamaha MX stuff, frame, motors and parts also some YAM DT1,2,A and Suzi TS bikes and stuff

Offline firko

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2011, 11:17:05 pm »
Quote
similarity to the Stock DT1 frame geo
The Champion frame geometry is nothing like the DT1 frame geometry Freaky. The wheelbase, rake, swingarm length, engine position are all very different. You'd never get away with the carry over argument.
Quote
doubt you will find its pre 70, only a couple of guy had access to them first motors
The DT1 came out in '68 and they sold truck loads of 'em. By mid '69 they were everywhere.
Quote
I would use the current head firko and not the Webco, if you running it on the short curcuit.  HAd some long chats with Neil keen a few year ago and although alot of his engineering discussions where over my head there where a few things i did understand.  Check the cc on the GYt and then the Webco when you do the maths on it youll see why im suggestign stcik with it.
I've got a number of choices including my modified GYT head. I've been running DT1's on Methanol for years and I agree, the GYT head is better than the others. I've got an idea with the Webco that I want to try. I've also got ACK and a Henderson heads to try.
Quote
I would like to see a close up the swing arm rear, the section of the frame where the airbox is and is there a number on 4 digit number on the head stem ?
There is no airbox and never has been. There are no tell tale mounting brackets if that's what you're getting at. I haven't got a closeup of the rear of the swingarm handy but it's very Champion in style, maybe PDV as well. The big difference on the swingarm is the weird brake stay mount, on top of the swingarm, not under it. Neither PDV or Champion did that...in fact I've never seen it done like that before. The rear wheel's maked 1972 so it's a DT2MX item.

 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 11:27:42 pm by firko »
'68 Yamaha DT1 enduro, '69 Yamaha 'DT1 from Hell' '69 DT1'Dunger from Hell, '69 Cheney Yamaha 360, 70 Maico 350 (2 off), '68 Hindall Ducati 250, Hindall RT2MX, Hindall YZ250a , Cycle Factory RT2MX flat tracker, Yamaha 1T250J, Maico 250 trials, '71, Boyd and Stellings TM400, Shell OW72,750 Yamaha

Offline Freakshow

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Re: Firko's new flat tracker
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2011, 12:27:01 am »
re above my point was it looks close enough to the Dt fraem rail wise to be a dt1 follow on ?

MAybe lotsa stockies were sold in 69, but i was referring to custom build frames, would only be a few makers doing the 2ees was my point on that.

in the first pics it looked to have a section for an airbox running along froim the side tab, but its not seen in the second set of pics so im not sure what going on there.

It doesnt have an engine shoe like a champion, with that rear mount more like the PDV fixed point. but the front mount is very sonic weld style. im wondering if it was made up in a shop by one of the guys doing foreignees for few extra bucks between races and this is somthing they tried based on the tubes they had and what bits where already fabricate they could drop in.   The swing arm plate is very agricultural and is the odd part like it was cut in on the job.  Whats the line on the arm, is it the chrome or is it steel and thats the drawing line ? if so that also makes me think it was a shop parts job.

Just thinking out loud.
74 Yamaha YZ's - 75 Yamaha YZ's
74 Yamaha  flattracker's
70  Jawa 2 valve speedway's

For sale -  PRE 75 Yamaha MX stuff, frame, motors and parts also some YAM DT1,2,A and Suzi TS bikes and stuff