Author Topic: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project  (Read 20574 times)

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Offline BAHNZY

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2011, 10:41:31 pm »
Geoff is on the money referencing axle and tow ball loads. When I built my trailer which is;
5.5 x 2 x 2 in the shell & 6.7 x 2.3 x 2.3 in its extremities I couldn’t get and clear and accurate information from the experts because a bike hauler, by its nature, will never be loaded and weighted the same time twice over. My trailer takes 6 bikes which on any given day can be between 600 kg and 700 kg. Add another 200+ kilo for fuel, gear and the usual junk that you carry and it not unreasonable to have a payload of 1000 kg’s. For a car trailer this is easy because they distribute the weight over 4 contact points, much like a horse trailer. Caravans are well thought out (usually) and it’s easy to set loading. By the way I have seen so many caravans “converted” to bike transporters and they become an instant pig to tow because they upset the weighted points within the chassis.

I notice that your axles are set back well beyond the centre line which is o/k but the extra area that has been added to the front will mean that weight can be stored in that area which was not originally engineered into the design which will seriously affect the download on the tow ball. I note that you have a Navara which has a 3000 kg braked towing capacity (if it’s a 2.5 STX) with a staggered 300 kg download according to the rear axle capacity so you shouldn’t have to many issues, but if you want to use a Commodore or Falcon, forget it, they simply won’t be able to cope.

For what it’s worth, my advice is;
Engineer your bike mounting points and location of miscellaneous items such as toolboxes, pit tents etc then adjust your axle and ball download points accordingly.
Unless you have a specific need, don’t line the inside of the trailer above the 1200 mm point as it its unnecessary weight in a place that you don’t need it, i.e. making it top heavy.
If the trailer is nothing more than a bike hauler, my experience is that you have little need for sinks, fridges, lounges, etc
Provide for plenty of ventilation as hot muddy bikes in a cold trailer created plenty of condensation.
Rod (BAHNZY) Bahn

Offline VMX247

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2011, 11:02:46 pm »
agree-bikes only at the back,,with all else under the bed up front !!
swappin out on the bitumen isnt fun  :(
We also take the fuel out overnight while camped up - smell and safety.  8)
cheers A
Best is in the West !!

Offline Kenneth S (222)

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2011, 07:13:52 am »
Thanks to everyone, especially Bahnzy for all the detailed info, it confirms my main concern, weight and weight distribution. The bikes are going to go across the back, only up to 3, so I plan to build the basic people comforts in the front and middle to balance out that weight. I'll have to keep things lean though to keep under my target weight limit of 2 tonne fully loaded. I also plan to make the water storage tank portable and put it in the back of the ute to save trailer weight of a couple of hundred kilos.
Kenneth S
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Heaven VMX Club - Racing No 222 - 79 CR250RZ - 84 CR250RE (Steam Train) - 89 CR250RK

Race Bike History
76 RM125A, 77 RM125B, 78 RM125C, RM400C, 79 CR250RZ, 80 YZ250G, 81 RM465X, 82-83 RM490 Frank Pons Special(Beetle's 81 Race Bike)

Offline bishboy

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2011, 12:05:06 pm »
Agree with everyones info about weight distribution etc.

Just a couple of things I did to my trailer to make life a bit easier:
-  mesh lined most of the walls (you'll have to remove that sheet lining already in there)
-  if you make the rear tail gate/ramp the whole height of the trailer it might get a bit heavy (and long?), maybe put a swinging door for the top third or convert to barn doors?
-  i assume it's got electric brakes, if not convert it, it makes a huge difference
-  a few U bolts attached to the frame can also be useful tie down points
-  some interior lights with a battery in a battery box with an external plug for easy recharge (photo of mine below - before I mesh lined it)
-  some of those flush fitting tie down points like those below (I just happened to be looking for a few more for my trailer)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Pair-Recessed-Tie-Down-Rings-Suit-Truck-Ute-/120581027852?pt=AU_product_Trailer_Parts&hash=item1c1330780c




Offline Kenneth S (222)

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2011, 05:07:47 pm »
Agree with everyones info about weight distribution etc.

Just a couple of things I did to my trailer to make life a bit easier:
-  mesh lined most of the walls (you'll have to remove that sheet lining already in there)
-  if you make the rear tail gate/ramp the whole height of the trailer it might get a bit heavy (and long?), maybe put a swinging door for the top third or convert to barn doors?
-  i assume it's got electric brakes, if not convert it, it makes a huge difference
-  a few U bolts attached to the frame can also be useful tie down points
-  some interior lights with a battery in a battery box with an external plug for easy recharge (photo of mine below - before I mesh lined it)
-  some of those flush fitting tie down points like those below (I just happened to be looking for a few more for my trailer)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Pair-Recessed-Tie-Down-Rings-Suit-Truck-Ute-/120581027852?pt=AU_product_Trailer_Parts&hash=item1c1330780c





Hi Bishboy,
Thanks for the suggestions.

We have almost ripped out all the inner linings back to the outer shell and I plan to make the inside basic and light. The trailer has a tail gate which is a ramp for the horses and the original designers have done exactly what you suggest, it only comes up about 1.4 mtrs. Only problem is the top hatch got lost along the way. I was thinking of making one up out of aluminium 40mm square tube and security mesh to keep the weight down.

Good call about the U-bolts and Tie Down Points, that's going straight to the project plan.

As well as lights, I'm going to have a fridge & hot water system, so I am going one step further and putting in a solar panel and battery for the 12v power system. I have luckily found an off road buff who has introduced me to a relatively low cost power system(< $700) which is a self charging solar system & battery having the extra advantage of utilizing the excess alternator charge of the tow vehicle to do the initial charge up on the way to the race meeting and then solar power to keep it topped up. If it all works as well as he says he has his working, it will be amazing.
Kenneth S
Go For It

Heaven VMX Club - Racing No 222 - 79 CR250RZ - 84 CR250RE (Steam Train) - 89 CR250RK

Race Bike History
76 RM125A, 77 RM125B, 78 RM125C, RM400C, 79 CR250RZ, 80 YZ250G, 81 RM465X, 82-83 RM490 Frank Pons Special(Beetle's 81 Race Bike)

Offline VMX247

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2011, 10:45:57 am »
any progress pics  8)
Best is in the West !!

Offline Rossvickicampbell

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2011, 12:03:39 pm »
going the other way - I have to agree - I towed a big bike trailer to the Nats in SA this year.  It was excellently built and towed well but bloody hell it was heavy for a Commodore.  Even though it fitted in with the weight restrictions etc (probably went close to 1.5t) and we had trailer brakes the fuel consumption went through the roof.  I only need a bike hauler now as I get to so few meets  ;D - so was looking at a light weight but good quality 2 rail trailer where I could install a sotrage box the length of the trailer in the middle for jerry cans, quick shades etc.  However the only ones I have seen so far are too lightweight - want a decent set of wheels for towing long distances at highway speeds for a start.  Any recommendations.

Sorry for the thread hijack!
1974 Yamaha YZ360B
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Offline Kenneth S (222)

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2011, 07:32:15 pm »
any progress pics  8)
Hi VMX247, Progress is good. I have been working on it all afternoon today and have nearly finished the frame. This shot was taken about 2 weeks ago when I had just tacked the new nose in place, I'll post more next week. Next step is to get the wiring all sorted before I sheet it. Cheers
Kenneth S
Go For It

Heaven VMX Club - Racing No 222 - 79 CR250RZ - 84 CR250RE (Steam Train) - 89 CR250RK

Race Bike History
76 RM125A, 77 RM125B, 78 RM125C, RM400C, 79 CR250RZ, 80 YZ250G, 81 RM465X, 82-83 RM490 Frank Pons Special(Beetle's 81 Race Bike)

Offline Kenneth S (222)

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2011, 07:40:36 pm »
going the other way - I have to agree - I towed a big bike trailer to the Nats in SA this year.  It was excellently built and towed well but bloody hell it was heavy for a Commodore.  Even though it fitted in with the weight restrictions etc (probably went close to 1.5t) and we had trailer brakes the fuel consumption went through the roof.  I only need a bike hauler now as I get to so few meets  ;D - so was looking at a light weight but good quality 2 rail trailer where I could install a sotrage box the length of the trailer in the middle for jerry cans, quick shades etc.  However the only ones I have seen so far are too lightweight - want a decent set of wheels for towing long distances at highway speeds for a start.  Any recommendations.

Sorry for the thread hijack!
No problem Rossvickicampbell, your comment is welcome. Have you considered a box trailer? I have had both and I find a box trailer much more practical and versatile than a bike trailer with the added benefit of having it there for those odd jobs. It tows effortlessly and is very stable at 110 to 120kph. A couple of pieces of angle tack welded in the right places and you have a trailer that holds the bikes as well as a channel bike trailer. They are still quite light but also sturdy because of there design. Once I have this project on the road, I will be selling my 8x5 box trailer I bought new a year ago.
Kenneth S
Go For It

Heaven VMX Club - Racing No 222 - 79 CR250RZ - 84 CR250RE (Steam Train) - 89 CR250RK

Race Bike History
76 RM125A, 77 RM125B, 78 RM125C, RM400C, 79 CR250RZ, 80 YZ250G, 81 RM465X, 82-83 RM490 Frank Pons Special(Beetle's 81 Race Bike)

Offline jimg1au

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2011, 06:31:00 am »
how many bikes fit the 8x5 and what price is it for sale for
jim

Offline Kenneth S (222)

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2011, 08:20:37 am »
how many bikes fit the 8x5 and what price is it for sale for
jim
Hi Jim, it Fits 3 bikes comfortably but you could cram another 2 loaded in the opposite direction if you didn't mind them sitting together. 3 is ideal though and that leaves plenty of room for your bike stands, a ramp, gas, fold up chairs and a tool box. I want to hang on to it until I have this big thing registered though, hopefully some time in Feb. As it is a rebuild, I don't know what objections the RTA will come up with. I'll PM you when I am ready. Here is the eBay link for the place I bought it. This is the exact trailer.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BRAND-NEW-8X5-HEAVY-DUTY-BOX-TRAILER-12-MONTHS-REGO-/320816411541?pt=AU_Trailers&hash=item4ab225f395#ht_619wt_881
Kenneth S
Go For It

Heaven VMX Club - Racing No 222 - 79 CR250RZ - 84 CR250RE (Steam Train) - 89 CR250RK

Race Bike History
76 RM125A, 77 RM125B, 78 RM125C, RM400C, 79 CR250RZ, 80 YZ250G, 81 RM465X, 82-83 RM490 Frank Pons Special(Beetle's 81 Race Bike)

Offline head

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2011, 09:01:40 am »
Hi
Be careful ending your trailer so far up the draw bar as you won't be able to turn your car without it hitting the back of car. Also watch it isn't to heavy at the tow point.
As long as the GVM of trailer is under 4500kg you will have no problem with rego. You can get guide lines for trailers under 4500kg from the RTA. You mainly need reflectors and lights in the right places. You will only need to get a blue slip and away you go. I built the fifth wheeler trailer you may have seen at the Heaven events.
Cheers Neil.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 09:03:16 am by head »

Offline Kenneth S (222)

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2011, 09:24:25 am »
Hi
Be careful ending your trailer so far up the draw bar as you won't be able to turn your car without it hitting the back of car. Also watch it isn't to heavy at the tow point.
As long as the GVM of trailer is under 4500kg you will have no problem with rego. You can get guide lines for trailers under 4500kg from the RTA. You mainly need reflectors and lights in the right places. You will only need to get a blue slip and away you go. I built the fifth wheeler trailer you may have seen at the Heaven events.
Cheers Neil.
Hi Neil, thanks for your comments. I'd love to see photos of your trailer if you have any. All is OK with the distance, I have the rear of the car clearing the nose by about 100mm at full lock. The weight distribution is looking good, the unit seems to be weighted centrally over the dual axles or maybe slightly more towards the rear at this point and seems to need more weight at the front to balance out the bike weights. I was speaking to a horse trailer seller this week and they feel sure the original unit before it was damaged was a gooseneck which would explain this. Most of the reflectors and lights on the main body are still there and operational so I'm looking good there. I have also downloaded all the design guidelines from the RTA and as far as I can see all complies.
Xmas Cheers
KJ
Kenneth S
Go For It

Heaven VMX Club - Racing No 222 - 79 CR250RZ - 84 CR250RE (Steam Train) - 89 CR250RK

Race Bike History
76 RM125A, 77 RM125B, 78 RM125C, RM400C, 79 CR250RZ, 80 YZ250G, 81 RM465X, 82-83 RM490 Frank Pons Special(Beetle's 81 Race Bike)

Offline Davey Crocket

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2011, 09:33:36 am »
Hey Ross, I've had a 10x5 box trailer for 15 years that I modded with a few extras, 3 jerry can holders on the L/H side (incase of sideswipe....ka-boom), 3 20ltr water containers on the R/H side, big toolbox on the drawbar and a small one on each side at the rear.....its done more miles than a Greyhound bus and not just by me, tows great....probably because of the lenght....carry's all the gear and 3 bikes comfortably (can squeeze 5 if you need) and is a great backup for going to the landscappers/dump etc. The secret to longlivity of trailers (lets face it, most stay out in the weather) is get it galvinised and/or sealed and painted by a professional (no pun intended but trailer most builders have not got a clue about correct paint/sealing procedures and a quick coat of "hammertone" or "jam" at the end is all they get.....cost is allways a factor aswell....old mate doesnt want to pay for a top job). Hey KJ, your trailers looking great....does have that old greyhound bus look too ;D....remember the old Detriot Deisel 2 stoke running on full noise everywhere with clouds of smoke bellowing out the exhausts.LOL.
QVMX.....Australia's #1 VMX club......leading the way.

Offline head

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Re: Call me Crazy but this is my Summer Project
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2011, 11:48:10 am »
Here are some of when I was building it. Can,t seem to find any of it finished.  Will take some soon of it