Author Topic: bulonda 420cc  (Read 13132 times)

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Offline David Lahey

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2011, 07:34:03 pm »
I still can't work out if you want to make a trials special or a racing special
previous pseudonym feetupfun

Offline fatboyracing

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2011, 07:36:06 pm »
I may have access to an Alpina frame but they have all the battery box etc which I spose could be removed Are they the enduro 350 model ? Is the Alpina frame steel or chrome olly?

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fatboy

Offline fatboyracing

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2011, 07:40:04 pm »
I want to make a light weight MX bike.
I have been racing an XL for 10 years or so and have enjoyed it but now I need to lighten down the bike or the rider and the only way I can lighten down the rider is to cut off a leg.

Do you think an Alpina frame would be much lighter and would it turn any better then a XL

cheers
Fatboy

Offline mick25

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2011, 07:59:26 pm »
Just Chucking one out there,
what about a custom frame made ,may be a job for GMC to your specs
May be a bit more dollars but could save alot of time trying to find a good frame match, and trying to make it handle and steer etc.
 

Offline David Lahey

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2011, 08:01:58 pm »
The best turning MX bike I have ever ridden had a bombed 370cc XL250-based motor running on alcohol fitted in a pre-75 Maico frame.
I think the XL350 motor design is too heavy to ever be in the same class for handling as an XL250-based motor, no matter what frame it gets fitted into.
previous pseudonym feetupfun

Offline Iain Cameron

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2011, 08:04:41 pm »
Shane how about a lowered DT1 frame with a RT swing arm 1" longer and Honda 350. hondaha!!!
Yamaha tragic ; dt1, rt1, dt2, rt2, dt2mx , rt2mx , mx250, mx360,sc500, 74dt125, yzx125, yzc250, yzc400, yzd250, yzd400, yzh250, yzh80 , dt100 , xr75 ko xr80 03 , it175 82 . Not a member of any club

Offline fatboyracing

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2011, 08:40:12 pm »
now I am even more confused, I dont think there would be many pre 75 Maico frames for sale I think I really need a rethink. I thank everyone for there answers I am still looking for the best options
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Fatboy

Offline Rossvickicampbell

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2011, 08:58:27 pm »
buy a YZ B  :D
1974 Yamaha YZ360B
1980 Honda CR250R - Moto X Fox Replica

Offline JC

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2011, 07:42:39 am »
I'd echo all the skeptical comments about putting it in an Alpina frame.

The geometry is all wrong for MX, not to mention weight distribution. It'd be awfully front-end heavy, esp if you used a longer swingarm (to get a decent length wheelbase).

And the engine bay is not very deep, esp below the pivot, where the honda engine requires it.

I have seen it done, & it was ridden in a VMX meet at Proserpine, but not very successfully.

The 115/116 Alpina frames are steel. The 137/138 frames are chro-mo & are VERY fragile, even with the extra bracing they have. I have a couple of 138 frames which are cracked & gussetted everywhere (eg downtube, backbone, rear shock mounts), just from trail use w the Bul engine which is much lighter than the XL engine

Offline firko

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2011, 11:18:39 am »
I've seen Honda 4 strokes in nearly every pre '75 frame imaginable and nearly all of them have been less than successful, each for its own reasons. I personally have used Montesa King Scorpion frame...(too heavy and the bottom frame rails need to be lowered to get the sprocket as close to swingarm centre as possible) and CZ (Same work as the Monty although much lighter). As good handling as the Maico is, it's not the ideal candidate either although the engine does fit a lot neater than most. The major problem being exhaust clearance with the twin downtubes but it's not insurmountable.

My pick is to use a circa 71-74 MK series Husqvarna frame. I've seen a few of these conversions and the actual swap seems to require less surgery than most of the others. One of the quirks of Husky handling is their slow turning ability, needing a bit of body english to place some extra weight over the front to rail the berms. It's not a fault, it just requires a style adjustment from what you usually do. However, it's been found that the fitting the much heavier Honda 4t engine turns the Husky into a cornering weapon, they turn much quicker than a stocker...one of those little bonus's that often pop up from an engine swap that you least expect.

Having said that, the most successful four stroke Hondas from the golden era of pre '75 nearly all featured stock frames. It's surprising how much weight can be chopped out of a stock XL frame and once fitted with decent forks (Ceriani, Betor, CZ), lightweight hubs and plastic or alloy tank and light plastic mudguards and side panels the XL stocker isn't as mundane as many think. Back in the 90's Steve Greentree raced a beautiful pair of XLs that were practically unbeatable, even outside of the 4 stroke class. These bikes rocked and inspired a lot of other builders to use Steves subtle tricks to get the old trailbike working well.
'68 Yamaha DT1 enduro, '69 Yamaha 'DT1 from Hell' '69 DT1'Dunger from Hell, '69 Cheney Yamaha 360, 70 Maico 350 (2 off), '68 Hindall Ducati 250, Hindall RT2MX, Hindall YZ250a , Cycle Factory RT2MX flat tracker, Yamaha 1T250J, Maico 250 trials, '71, Boyd and Stellings TM400, Shell OW72,750 Yamaha

Offline Freakshow

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2011, 11:47:40 am »
Doesnt Col metcher has a maico with a HOnda in it ?, ask him from some pics of that to see if its of interest.



74 Yamaha YZ's - 75 Yamaha YZ's
74 Yamaha  flattracker's
70  Jawa 2 valve speedway's

For sale -  PRE 75 Yamaha MX stuff, frame, motors and parts also some YAM DT1,2,A and Suzi TS bikes and stuff

Offline Tossa

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2011, 12:06:19 pm »
we've got a honda running in husky frame over here in the West has run very successfully
1973 Rickman Zundapp Metisse, to rebuild
1979 Husqvarna WR250
1974 Husqvarna MAG CR250

Offline Marc.com

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2011, 12:12:29 pm »
I have been looking at Pursang frames as possibility for TM400 engine. So interesting that the XL will fit as it is bigger, heavier and slower than the TM.
formerly Marc.com

Offline LWC82PE

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2011, 12:39:33 pm »
Here is the Greentree one



I am keeping the stock frame aswell on mine. I think its plenty good enough.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 12:42:10 pm by LWC82PE »
Wanted - 1978 TS185 frame or frame&motor. Frame # TS1852-24007 up to TS1852-39022

Offline Freakshow

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Re: bulonda 420cc
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2011, 12:51:54 pm »
looks more like a CrZ in its styling.
74 Yamaha YZ's - 75 Yamaha YZ's
74 Yamaha  flattracker's
70  Jawa 2 valve speedway's

For sale -  PRE 75 Yamaha MX stuff, frame, motors and parts also some YAM DT1,2,A and Suzi TS bikes and stuff