the new look VMX rule book

[firko]

74TM has said in pre 76 you would have models up to an inc 1975 not inc 76 so that would mean the RM370A which is a 76 model would not be against the TM400. 76 models would be in pre 79 according to his suggestion.

Picky, picky  ...OK, lets go with my TM250L V RM250A then....still a stacked deck. Putting '73 models in the same class as '75 models defeats the whole purpose of the era split. The current era split works well, the numbers weren't just plucked out of the air, they represent the technology leaps motocross machinery went through fairly accurately.
Pre 60: The era of stripped down road based bikes.
Pre 65: The first transition from road based bikes towards purpose built motocrossers.
Pre 70: The first steps of the two stroke revolution and the last gasp of the 4 stroke.
Pre 75: The sports first golden era, the advent of the affordable and reliable production motocross bike.
Pre 78: The beginning of the suspension revolution.
Pre 85: The beginning of the water cooled, linkage suspended disc brake revolution.
Pre 90: The further sophitication of linkaged suspension and the 500 class horsepower wars.
Evolution: A technology inspired class for bikes with air cooling, non linkaged suspension and drum brakes.
              A surrogate pre 80 class of sorts.

[Freakshow]

i like it ... lets go with that then.   

[Freakshow]

Nah walter, Just everyone is now finally getting on the right page.

[albrid-3]

In 1973 we were laying rear shock down, so a 75 model would be no better than a 73 model, they where producing about the same horse power, it comes down to the jockey. My dates would work.

[bishboy]

Now I don't know a lot about pre 78 and even less about pre 75, but as I see it the gist of this topic is to specifically list carry over models in pre 75 that wouldn't be competitive in pre 78 and too somehow boost numbers in pre 78, by the same or other methods.

I don't think that having more classes is the answer, it would just create more work for officials, administrators etc and possible dilute competitor numbers across the classes, unless of course competitor numbers in one or two classes supports a further split (did I just contradict myself there )

My understanding currently is that and pre 75 bike with more than 4" of travel must either be adjusted or compete in pre 78, and any pre 78 bike with more than 9" must be adjusted or compete in evo?  What if the suspension travel rules were removed, how many more models would would then be able to compete in their correct year of manufacture class and would this cause any great shift in the current competiveness within the classes?

If pre 78 was changed to pre 79, to boost the number of available bikes, are the 78 model bikes (i assume currently evo class bikes) that would be then competing significantly faster than the 75-77 bikes that it would cause the same problems that these rule changes are trying to sort out?

Just a couple of thoughts from someone who doesn't have much of a clue about these particular classes/bikes 

[Montynut]

It would be easier to list the 77 MXers that meet the nine inch travel rule...
I believe all of the Montesas, KTMs and Huskies are out, along with the 250+ Yamahas and Suzukis.
That's gotta account for at least half of the pre-78 entries at any race meet.

You can add the '77 Maico to that list.

The '75 Model Bullies seem competitive in Pre78 to me. Last Sunday I had a great race with one on my (restricted travel) '77 Montesa. Pre 78 is restricted to 9'' travel for better or worse, this makes most of the '75 reasonably competitive. There will always be less competitive early models in each Era it is the nature of the beast and applies to whatever cut off you apply. The YZ400C is not competitive with a YZ400D on paper but they are a neat bike just the same. Personally I see the Pre78s as the most interesting due to the rapid changes taking place during those years. I can remember some models being almost out-dated before you had them ran in!

Another problem with adding ’75+ models to Pre75 is that it makes ’70-’72 models even less competative. Maybe we should move them into Pre70 but then the '65 & '66 models and on it goes.

[Doc]

quick comment, pre'76 would include the RM125S which isn't really in the spirit ...unless you owned an RM125S of course

[LWC82PE]

I think they should stay at pre 75 and pre 78. If you dont like to have a bike that is the oldest in the class and supposedly not competitive then upgrade to the newest bike in each class. No matter how hard you try to shift things around and make some bikes less disadvantaged, all it does is just shift the disadvantge onto other bikes like montynut said. I think 090 had a good comment a while back something along the lines of in the end it will come down to rider ability.

[Doc]

and what o9o said is the truth Leith, I witnessed a younger guy named Adrian McIntyre demolish near all comers in all pre'78 capacities at the Coff's Nats in 07 onboard Dodgee's stock RM125S

The reasoning for my ideal in regards to the TM250M was more about keeping like models with like models and not about what's the best bike to win or disadvantaging anyone, God knows whilst the TM250's might/do win now, back in the day they wearn't looked upon the hot setup

[oldfart]

Doc, youth was on Young Adrians side ( 18 YO  from memory ) and yes he was quick.   does he still ride ??

[JohnnyO]

Changing to pre '79 wouldn't be a smart idea.. The '78 CR250RZ will stomp the rest of the field with it's 12'' of suspension and rocketship engine, it's one of the best Evo bikes around.
Leave it like it is.. no matter what you do some models will suffer.

[09.0]

Changing to pre '79 wouldn't be a smart idea.. The '78 CR250RZ will stomp the rest of the field with it's 12'' of suspension and rocketship engine, it's one of the best Evo bikes around.
Leave it like it is.. no matter what you do some models will suffer.

  Yeah exactly. I was just saying that to Tatey before. The system is good as it is and will be flawed no matter which way you cut the eras off.

[GD66]

At last !! FFS lads, the main issue in historic roadracing is well-intentioned blokes building machines that to them represent their past, or a favourite era...then turning up, discovering they're outside the parameters of the MA rulebook, packing the sh*ts and disappearing, to never be seen again.
The vmx guidelines are not only pretty simple and straight-forward, but have been tuned by patient, intelligent men : bottom line is, if you wanna race vmx, study the rulebook first, THEN AND ONLY THEN make your decisions about what you wanna race...
And go your hardest...

[philthy]

As a newcomer to the sport I don't normally get involved with things I don't know much about.Having said that I rode the pre78 125 class at Crystal Brooke and had as much fun as I can remember on a dirt bike for a long time.I was never near the pointy end but I had my battles nonetheless.My friend took out the pre78 250 class win on an old bike because he is a good rider,and I'm pretty sure the Smith Brothers would have won and placed in the pre78 125 class on a 1970 model bike,it's just the way it is.Me I'm going to sell or retire my Evo bike ,buy a pre 75 ride a heap of races at next years Nats and have a good time   

[TM BILL]

Johnny Os post sums it up exactly   leave it the fock alone   no matter what there will always be what are considered by some orphan bikes .The rule book has had a tidy up and thats great but dont even think of messing with what is a great set of eras . The Poms now run what they call Circa 74 and circa 77 (i think ) this is great in concept and it appears to work great in the UK but would not nesserceryly work elsewhere.

Pre 78 is a great era   if people feel they have to have a 77 model bike to be competitive then 95% of them are bullshiting themselves  
in most cases it would take a personality transplant to be competitive  .Ride what you like to ride and enter that bike in what ever class the GCRs say it fits into and enjoy yourselves  

congratulations to the commisioners for having a sort out of the rule book and flow on models