Identify this frame.

[firko]

Flower Pot Ben sent me these shots of his friends mystery motocross frame. It appears to be professionally built and well proportioned. Jonesy, Ben and I agree that it has carries a lot of resemblence to a 'mini' featherbed Norton design but that's all we can figure out. The engine mounts appear to be for a BSA B40/C15 engine going by the narrow rear engine mount and oil outlet. The spacing of the rear mounts would be much wider if it was for a B44/B50 engine. We're keen to unravel the mystery of the frames heritage so.......Anyone got any ideas?

[Slakewell]

Firko it may be a very rare Spagforth prototype ridden by the great Edgar Jesop?
Or maybe I have no idea. 

[firko]

Mick....a couple of folks suggested that it may be a pre unit Spagforth Swallow frame but after reading Jessops excellent history of the Spagforth marque I tend to disregard that line of thought .

[VMX247]

Nice find...
I'll go with ex Clint Eastwood. 
"The Scrap Book Series Norton" James Robinson from the publishers of The Classic Motorcycle covers alot with photos of these frames - all the good stuff 
cheers A

[Freakshow]

that little open bar after the lower rear brace would be someting to follow up on, looks a bit propreity.  and the air box too. small stuff liek that always seem to lead to the big answers.

then again ben you should have shunted motors in and out before the powdercoat  so you had some ideas going  ....... 

i can sell you some rear spoilers for that bike if your interested ? i know werre there are 3 going cheap.  ( did you get the last email ? i think we should put them on ebay and get some money back - there worth $15 each at least .  split the profit with ya

[flower pot racing]

that little open bar after the lower rear brace would be someting to follow up on, looks a bit propreity.  and the air box too. small stuff liek that always seem to lead to the big answers.

then again ben you should have shunted motors in and out before the powdercoat  so you had some ideas going  ....... 

i can sell you some rear spoilers for that bike if your interested ? i know werre there are 3 going cheap.  ( did you get the last email ? i think we should put them on ebay and get some money back - there worth $15 each at least .  split the profit with ya

Answers on a postcard please.....  a real Metisse (mongrel)  Front half is Rickman inspired, back end Cheney / BSA.  Not mine, it's a mates.  I would not have painted it before it was built.  Always a shame to damage any finish when you realise that bracket for holding that widget is missing.....
Guards are best left out for the dustbin man I think.  He collects the rubbish every other wednesday.  Tomorrow is green bin ~ recycling.  Black bin ~ is next week.......  More effort than they are worth.....

[flower pot racing]

Thanks for posting Mark.  One day I will work out how to post pictures.....!

All help gratefully recieved.

I dont know what it is.  Does anyone recognise it?

[Mick D]

So far the obvious;
1) motorcycle frame
2) for a dry sump four stroke engine.
3) No foot peg mounting points. So an engine that commonly had the peg mounts adapted onto the engine covers?

just trying to be constructive, so it would be nice not to hear;

  Oh yeah you think Mick??
  Oh no shit sherlock

[Mick D]

So are we looking at symmetrical holes on each side of the air box in those pics?
If so, twin air ducting for a twin cylinder engine

[Mick D]

Its blue in colour.

[Mick D]

How wide are the engine mount frame tabs?
What is the distance between the front and rear engine mount hole centres?

Armed with knowledge of what engine it was made for, will obviously take us a lot closer to its origin.

Oh yeah, what do we win when someone finally falls upon the eureka moment?
   A ride

[huskibul]

     C15/B40 measure 320mm centre's between front and rear mounts, the front mount inside measures 46mil and rear 31mil ,is the top of the airbox open ? hope it helps -cheers

[firko]

The Scrap Book Series Norton" James Robinson from the publishers of The Classic Motorcycle covers alot with photos of these frames

It's not a Norton frame Alison-it's 'kinda Featherbed' in layout but it's pretty obvious that it's an aftermarket frame.

Armed with knowledge of what engine it was made for, will obviously take us a lot closer to its origin.

Mick, from careful study of the mounts it appears to be for an early BSA unit engine (C15/B40).

If so, twin air ducting for a twin cylinder engine

The twin air ducting has little to do with the number of cylinders Mick. My Cheney single has a dual inlet airbox, as are Metisse airboxes, no matter what engine is used. That airbox is neither Cheney or Metisse but is obviously very professionally made, as is the frame. This is no backyard boilermaker special .

I'm a bit on Bens side in that despite it's Norton looks, it also has elements of both Cheney, Metisse and BSA. I'm wondering if it might be made in Sweden...those buggers made a hell of a lot of aftermarket frames in the sixties or perhaps France? Has anyone got a photo of a  aftermarket Puissant four stroke frame for comparison?

[223]

Puissant......!? ET VOILA'..!!

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ciao
Graziano

[Freakshow]