hey lads, whatda ya reckon the chances??????????

[elsie 125]

and old school, this enthusiastic new punter, has been around the sport for a while, he is just looking for ideas on improving and increasing the numbers in our sport, in both modern, and classic,
 my boys are now 2 old to ride dads bikes in the juniors, although they can go out and ride them anytime,
IF they chose to ride them at the nats, the 16 to 29 year pre 75 age class could be interesting

[All Things 414]

Good on ya elsie. You sound like a salt of the earth sorta bloke. Quite a resume'. I thought it was about the bikes and not the age as well. Well spotted Nathan......

[All Things 414]

I disagree. I would be more than interested in competing in Pre 65 or earlier. These bikes are wayyy before my time but since being exposed to them through VMX (both the printed form and physically), I'd be more than prepared to cough up for a nice old Brit four banger and experience what competing against other such beasts would be like. I know there's other guys out there the same so I don't think the experiences of a few should be written into stone as what should and shouldn't happen.
Now this is just an opininion. You don't have to get all hot under the collar that someone that you're not that keen on expresses it.

[elsie 125]

all good old school, I can handle criticism, seen a lot of that in junior dirt track over the years,and a lot of kids come and go,because dad didnt make it fun for them, it became a chore, what we do need is constructive criticism,
because a few tried nearly 20 years ago and it didnt work, doesnt mean its not worth trying again,
And the junior 125s being a novelty at the canberra nats, your probably dead right, and what a fun novelty it would be!!!!
And then again, it could turn into something more, if the little guys were given an oppurtunity,
Its easy 2 sit back and say it wont work, cause we tried 20 years ago!!!

Yes Graeme, there will be some young guys out at the track on sunday, keep your eye on a little fella on a 92 cr80 #83
 And thanks for your input and support 414, hope to see you in canberra!!

[firko]

 I  support the idea of a junior 125 class to be run on club days but I don't however support any moves for it to be included in the Australian Classic Dirt Track Championships.
To me the Aussie Championships is a serious event, a holy grail for our movement. To give Championship status to a class for part time kid racers riding Dads bike is a slap in the face to the serious vintage racer who builds and pays for his own bike and travels at his own expense to distant meetings throughout the year to support the sport. That bloke usually loves the bikes he has nurtured with his own hands and has a strong afinity with the sports history and the philosophy behind what VMX is about.

With due respect to the young blokes who would theoretically be riding in the Junior class, with some exceptions, they couldn't give a toss for old bikes. Like Oldschool wrote, they'd rather be riding a modern bike with their mates than riding Dads bike against Dads mates sons. If Dad sold the bike they really wouldn't give a toss. These kids really aren't deserving of a Vintage Championship class because they are only Vintage racers by default. On a club day?....I say go for it!

In reply to 414s point that he'd like to race pre 65 and that those bikes were around way before his time. I am actually building a pre 65 bike myself and those bikes were also before even my time. The difference is that you and I have been around the sport for a while. We've had our modern bike "careers" and now we look back on those years in fondness and compete in vintage in those classes that we most directly relate to. We've also had time to mature in our outlook and absorb earlier ideas and concepts, hence both of our interests in pre 65.
The kids Elsie proposes haven't had their modern career yet so it is a big ask for them to be interested in bikes that were built twenty years before they were born.

[Graeme M]

I must admit I didn't notice that the proposal was for a junior championship class. I'd agree with a support class, but not a championship class. But that brings up my particular hobbyhorse. I am mostly pretty laid back about vintage MX and couldn't be stuffed getting all that worked up about riveted sprockets or remote reservoir shocks etc.

BUT...

I don't agree with younger riders racing in vintage championships. VMX is about the bikes and the times, and to me it's more a feel good thing. BUT, if we are going to have a National Championship, then it should be for the older riders, men in their 40s or older. If it weren't for the guys in that age bracket, there wouldn't BE any vintage MX full stop. No 22 year old is going to start a movement to bring back old boat anchors.

I am not sure how old the guys who won the championships at Wagga were, but I got the impression there were a few of the local young guns riding and doing OK. That's just not what it's about in my opinion. I don't want to see a 22 year old win an Aussie Vintage MX Championship.

I have absolutely no problem with them riding at say a VIPER club day, or a local ACT club day, or Classic Dirt, but not an Aussie Championship.

So, my two bobs worth is this.

Run a Junior support class with trophies or whatever and make it a novelty thing. Who cares if it doesn't start a huge influx of kids to VMX? Also, please please can we have age classes for the real vintage classes.

BTW: This is my opinion only and I *know* you'll have something to say Nathan. But I just don't think it's fair to have a 55 year old facing up to a 25 year old. Especially if the 25 year old is a gun... 

Must go check out the MOMs too cos I have no idea what it says about national championship classes.

[Nathan S]

 
I'm almost speechless... Almost.

I've typed out several replies to this thread, each marginally less confrontational than its predecessor, but then it came to me:

We all love racing/riding old bikes for our own reasons. How dare we deny that opportunity to anyone who doesn't fit our perception of a vintage racer?

Make the junior VDT class a trophy only event if you're worried about there being a value-less Junior VDT championship, but to turn away competitor support for a junior VDT race would be unforgivable.
What's that saying about the most sure-fire way to ensure a 'club' fails is if it only accepts people just like us?

[Graeme M]

Oh come on Nathan, you could never be speechless!

[Noel]

I think history is a school subject,


why should we deny  any interested juniors experience in History  of this sport ,hands on,
even if it is just to Humour their  dad or Grandfather, they may not care about it six months after the event But they just Might 20/ 30 years later
If their modern career only includes modern bikes that will be their history.
If it really upsets people I don't think all races held at a champion ship venue on a championship date need to be champion ship races,
and Yes as many do I support age classes what is the cut of for age classes

serious as it may be
do you really think a championship medal is the only reason people turn up,
if only one rider turns up who is there to beat,
surely you are not suggesting that only riders with a chance of winning " the Holy Grail" should enter
How many of the Winners  at the Historic Road race championships owned the bike they won on?
Noel
Yes this is a Scotch fueled reply

[elsie 125]

I am all for some support races, and am definately for the aged racing also, nothing worse than a 52 yr old racing a 26 yr old, no way!!!!!
would have to check the rule book, but I think it is only 8 entries 2 constitute a class??

[All Things 414]

Firko. I said wayyy before my time, not way. 
I'm just pretty sure that when I was 16, if I'd been given the chance to ride something 25 odd years old in a race against other bikes the same age, I would have jumped at it!
Now I know I wouldn't have made a career of it and would have most likely have walked away from it after a couple of goes, but it would have been a hoot and may have gotten me into VMX 10 years earlier than I did.
Just let 'em have a run. If there isn't enough for a class, run 'em in another one without points. Life's too short...

[firko]

Fine, no problems letting them have a run. My objection is to letting them have their own championship.

[magoo]

I personally don't care either way, what I do object to is at a Vintage meeting Juniors getting more racing than the Vintage guys, especially on modern bikes. If there is time, yeah, who cares, but don't run them to the detriment of what we're supposed to be doing.

[mboddy]

Will MA allow any moderns to be a support race at the Australian Titles?
They don't allow it for Historic Road Racing.
PCRA asked MA to allow New Era support classes (Pre 90 and Pre 96) at the 2007 Australian Historic Road Racing Titles but approval was not given.
Historics only at Historic Titles.

[YSS]

Allowing moderns at the Classic title event , would pretty much mean the beginning of the end for VMX.