What's happened to all the real bikes???

[bigk]

Lets equate to women.
2T 2 stroke: slim, fit, demure, purposeful, not too much make up, what you see is what you get, not model material but a damn good look;
Can Am sonic: a tad chubbier but pretty much as above, the "girl next door" type.
The other 4T (we all know which one): where do I start? This one is the "mutton dressed up as lamb" old hag sitting in the corner of the nightclub, blinged to the hilt, getting pissed off her brain but still can't drag a root.
Cheers,
K

[LWC82PE]

I dont think people dislike the sonic, its just that there are not many round and its probably cheaper and easier to build a HL 'replica' either from a frame kit or some sort of modified frame with a RM/PE swingarm and then call it a HL. I think the rarity of the sonic would put people off and they would rather the easy factor of doing a Yammy motor thats easy to get genuine and aftermarket parts for rather than the Canam where you would have to go to one of the half a dozen or so specialists worldwide and track down the parts. For some that is too hard and expensive. The Sonics that do pop up on ebay etc are often missing a lot of the original essential parts which can make it a bit too hard for someone to restore. There was one on ebay a while back like that and i know someone who was interested in it put was put off by the high price the guy was asking for it where it was missing a lot of the key parts. Ive seen some that were missing the right forks, shocks, plastics etc which can make it hard to do for some. Thats why a custom bike like a HL, CCM, or C&J Honda etc can be easier to do as you can sort of do them how you like as they are specials and i think thats where it has got out of hand. Then the really good complete sonics are often asking really high prices, i think there was one asking 20 G at some point? I think some people are too scared to race a bike like that and wear it out so they would typically only buy it for collector/show value and not race it every weekend.

[firko]

Can -Am Sonic?? Jeez I've only ever seen two or three in my life. I'd have thought that they're a perfect example of the exotica that some don't understand. These are cool bikes but they're rarer than CCM's in Australia. The reason people "bang on" about HL Yamahas, C&J Hondas is that anyone can own one if they so please. Yamaha XT/TT and XL/XR Honda engines are cheap and easily found and you can buy replica frames from GMC or elsewhere for not a great deal of money.

It all comes back to different strokes for different folks. It might come as a surprise to some but many people like to build their own bike, something away from the cookie cutter, same old same old mentality. As a young bloke I used to see bikes like Cheneys, Metisses and Hindalls in bike magazines and wish I could own one. Unfortunately my apprentice boilermaker wages and the unavailability of such exotica in Australia prevented any hope of owning one. Now with eBay making the world much smaller and being in a stronger (slightly) financial position I can now build the bikes of my youthful dreams. I'm not alone in this either, there's a bit of hot rodder in many of us, to us there's nothing better than building something unique, reflecting a bit of our own personality.

[jimg1au]

i agree with firko its easy to get hold of things now to build you hot rod vmx or dirt track bike.i have nearly finished a staracer tt/xt 500 yamaha.its not to pretty at the moment but i have raced the motor when it was in a xt frame at last years pre 75 pre 85 day at nepean and it is fast.it was built by my brother and runs on methenol and has hi comp piston and wiz bang cam.i am also going to build a long track xl350 honda.
it will cost twice as much to get the honda only 3/4 of the power of the yamaha.

[vandy010]

something i did a lot more of when i got into this VMX game but tend not to do as much of now is to
"walk the pits".
it's amazing what can be right under our noses and completely overlooked all day long if we don't
 "open our eyes" and take a good look.
the pits at a BMCC club day turns up more than our fairshare of all makes and models.
we've got a good thing going VMX in general i mean.
love the one your with and all that

[Marc.com]

I dont think people dislike the sonic, its just that there are not many round and its probably cheaper and easier to build a HL 'replica' either from a frame kit or some sort of modified frame  

Cheaper....  when was the last time you built an HL replica or otherwise . The mechanicals of the Sonic are no big deal as it is the Rotax 4 banger thats fitted to a lot of bikes. Its a decent chassis with a 4 stroke engine, alloy swingarm, Ohlins piggy back shocks, 44mm forks..... all that is really missing is a YZ125c tank.... I mean it is not like most HL reps don't have all those things.

Anyways in VMX people go off the deepend as you say about certain bikes as they have a kind of iconc status, this is evident by the premium price some bikes command, and may or may not have any relationship to performance, history or logic.

[firko]

Besides saving "exotic" custom framed bikes from skip bins, my other passion is the Doc theory of turning supposedly ordinary and dull old trail bikes into reasonably competitive and fun racers. I'm full of admiration for people like Doc, Vandy and Nathan who can go out and turn a lump of neglected shit into a legitimate racer and enjoy the experience.
The further we travel as a sport the more room we have for all sorts. I'm continually amazed at the quality of the restos going on in suburban sheds by guys who have no professional qualifications other than a passion for what they're doing. I'm equally impressed when I see a humble old DT1 or XL Honda transformed into a racer capable of putting a smile on its owners dial. It might not be the most competitive bit of tackle on the paddock but is that the main aim in why we build our bikes? I've got some nice bikes in my shed but the ones that give me the most pride are those that I've rescued from becoming landfill or have assembled from a ute full of unrelated cast offs. There's room in our sport for everything from a high bling CCM right through to a daggy looking old RT1 beater. The pride of ownership factor has nothing to do with how much the bike cost, it's all about the passion involved in its ownership.

[Marc.com]

The pride of ownership factor has nothing to do with how much the bike cost, it's all about the passion involved in its ownership.

You hit the nail on the head Firko.

[LWC82PE]

Cheaper....  when was the last time you built an HL replica or otherwise. The mechanicals of the Sonic are no big deal as it is the Rotax 4 banger thats fitted to a lot of bikes. Its a decent chassis with a 4 stroke engine, alloy swingarm, Ohlins piggy back shocks, 44mm forks..... all that is really missing is a YZ125c tank.... I mean it is not like most HL reps don't have all those things.

 

what i was meaning is when people chop up a XT/TT frame, fit YZ forks RM/PE swingarm etc and then call it a HL replica or buld a DRM400/500 for example.

Yes i am fully aware how much $ a proper type HL500 costs to do properly, not cheap.

I can understand you but try telling that to the average bloke who sees the Canam as a rare exotic bike. There are plenty of Yamaha dealers you can just walk into and buy parts from, but most will find it hard to walk down the street and find a canam shop to order parts for a sonic from and that would be off putting for some, especially the non internet wise ones.

[Marc.com]

Just reading on Bloomberg about riggers up North on over 220 grand per year .... whole country should be riding exotics, CCMs and MC490s with that kind of cash floating about.

Anyway Leith, I agree a very good reason to actually build an HL500 is that you can just walk into Yamaha and buy everything as the engine is still in production with very few modifications over the decades. Makes HL rep cheap prospect to run and own. If you use current version Ohlins then shock services are also not an issue, plastics, everything is available.

[TM BILL]

Its hard for me to comment on what was a real bike back in the day (on this side of the world ) as i didn't arrive hear till late 82 .

However i grew up and started my racing in the UK in the mid 70s. As i remember it in Schoolboy racing Suzukis were by far the most popular ride and in the youngest classes (cadets) Italjets were very popular .

In Seniors again it was a Japanese benefit with Maico being the most popular Euro brand by far . The 78 ,79 Maicos were the choice of clubman riders and seemed to turn ordinary riders into podium finishers . There were obviously a fair spread of other euro brands and British built specials .

I dont recall seeing any HLs other than Abergs at the GPs , i do remember the Hagon Eastwood monoquoce Yams though and obviously a number of CCMs . The only bikes i remember being regulary push started were CCMs , i dont recall Maicos being hard to start .

As for top riders on different brands in  late 70s UK , Neil Hudson on Maico , Andy Roberton on Montesa , Vic Allan on Bultaco, Bob Wright CCM , Vic Eastwood Hagon , Pete Mathia Cotton, EMX Dave Tomasik KTM .

I came to NZ in 82 and the scene was 99% Japanese with a few Huskys thrown in and still no HLs 

[Davey Crocket]

Sounds like you missed the boat Bill......dont go and do anything stupid....

[firko]

I still don't quite understand the original intent of this thread. I've been involved in VMX for 25 years and I reckon what we are seeing at the track generally reflects the fields during the respective divisions golden eras. The Maicos, Husky's, CZ's TM's, MX's, Pursangs and Cappras that ruled the roost during the pre 75 era are still out there and in the later classes the big four Japanese marques are still the most popular weapons of choice. I'm sure there must have been one or two 414 Cappras, Mk 9 Pursangs and Can-Ams racing in NSW in the late seventies and early eighties but I honestly don't recall them. There weren't all that many Maicos either.....Ross King only imported a tiny number of 490 motocrossers when compared to the enduro models. The Jap/Euro ratio may have been different in other states but in NSW we rarely saw Euro bikes (other than Husky) on the motocross scene.

Where things have changed in today's scene is the internet providing a viable alternative bike market, allowing us to purchase bikes that we'd previously only dreamed of owning. The huge influx of 490 Maicos and other bikes previously seen as exotica can be put down to the ease of importing from America. The popularity of HLs in Australia is almost certainly because the replica frame maker is right here and the easy access to XT/TT 500 engines . Despite the increased number of Maicos and a few HL's, the Japanese dominated status quo in the pre 90/Evo divisions remains the same. The real bikes have been out there all the time .

[DJRacing]

66M, Why dont you just come out and say it. Stop F*#King with REAL motocross bikes and stealing parts for pretenders that are wantanbe modern slow strokers.
How many YZ125C's have been pulled apart to make an over-rated pogo-stick that are louder than a Blinkco490 with red tyres.

[firko]

DJ...I really doubt that too many people would break up a complete bike for a bloody tank. That's what eBay and, swapmeets and wrecking yards are for. I just don't understand why people hate HL's so much?? Bikes just like the HL have been a part of our sport for as long as it's existed. Racers have forever been looking for ways of getting around the track easier and faster. Back in the early fifties our uncles discovered that the BSA Gold Star frame suited the rigors of scrambles and that the Triumph twin was a good engine for the purpose so voila!, the TriBSA was born. Then along came the Rickman brothers who reckoned they could do it better again and thus was created the Metisse which gave a suitable home for everything from the Bultaco 250 to the 750 Norton. Eric Cheney, Alan Clews (CCM) and many more carried on the tradition. Every one of these bikes used parts from donor bikes or wrecking yards and they are real bikes. The HL replica is just continuing a long tradition that started in the 1920's when some brave punters fitted JAP engines to spindly OK Supreme frames in a bid to create a better scramble/motocross bike. Just because an HL doesn't appeal to your idea of what a motocross bike should look like doesn't mean that they're any less important in the make up of our sport.