montesa cappra 250 1969 5 speed

[montynut]

That GP360 is one great looking bike .

Now to the Ross and Paul show or is it the Megalonychidae and Bradypodidae show  but which is which.

The Oedipus complex at work in one or both cases???

Joking joking OK   

But yes Paul by all means give me first go at any interesting Monties you happen by 

[SAABCOMBI]

There is a 360 gp on ebay, the one greame  and lyall sold was first bought off me the history behind that bike, l bought it off the original owner Larry Powell and he raced the monty back in the 60`s and early 70`s bought the bike new off Lyall in geelong and Larry is related to John Boag, l found the bike one street back from my place at his son`s place. They did do a very nice restoration

[firko]

For starter Jim, the 69 models were 4 speeds not 5 speeds

Are you certain of that Dave? I was under the impression that the first release of the orange bikes had 4 speeds (1968?) and the '69 models had 5 speeds. Billy Browns dual Nats pre '70 class winner is certainly 5 speed. Perhaps Jared can give a definitive answer?

[hitatreeonce]

Sounds like this bike is a gp5 the dirt tracker or a gp with a five speed box they fit in, I dont think its legeal if its had a 5 speed box fitted by the way I understand the rules, reguardless they are a lovely bike got a couple of them and they make me giggle like a schoolgirl every time I ride them!

[jimg1au]

i had a quick look and all the ma pre 70 bike list says gp250 gp360.nothing about 4 or 5 speed
if it looks the same on the out side as a 1968 69 as with most bikes they dont worry whats on the inside
i think it is a short track bike the owner was telling me thismorning on the phone
def has white frame and orange tank.folding foot pegs steel with ribs(his words)

[hitatreeonce]

ask him if it has a 18 inch front wheel and no brake the model number is 53m for the gp the gp5 has a differnt one cant remember what it is off the top of my head, very rare bike no matter what one it is, I can give a bit of info if you pm me I'll give you my contact number

[hitatreeonce]

I should have added the book mentions something about gearbox mods I could be wrong someone out there will know for sure

[montynut]

The '68 GP250 was a 4 speed and 53M model designation with only around 250 made. The '69 GP250 was a 5 speed model designation 43M with around 1100 made. Both had 21" front wheels.

Externally they appear very similiar (almost identical)

http://www.montesaweb.com/secciones/modelos.aspx

Firko the two tanks your mate has are for the '69 360 GP/DS possibly the DS was a dessert model with the optional larger tank production run of around 200 model 46M http://www.montesaweb.com/secciones/detalles.aspx?id=30
the picture shows the blue colour scheme scrambler version with 19" front wheel while your mates orange colour scheme is the motocross version with 21' front wheel
http://www.earlyyearsofmx.com/MontesaCapra.html

[hitatreeonce]

Hi have to dissagree with you montynut I have a 69 gp and they are 4 speeds, I have the original book that came with it the gp5 box goes straight in I have one of those also the motors are the same from all the info I have,before anyone starts getting cranky I'm only stating the information I'm aware of and will stand correct if I'm wrong

[montynut]

No one getting cranky here  just an interesting discussion.

My info only comes from the WEB pages I linked above as I started riding in '71 so a '69 Monty is before my time but they look great .

The '69 360GP was a 4 speed as all 360 Monty MXers where as far as I know. It took most of the Japanese brands until the '80s to work out that an open class MXer only needed 4 speeds 

The VB360 can have the 5 speed from the VB250 installed or just put the VB360 cylinder on the VB250 bottom end if you are crazy enough.

As Montesa was a relatively small factory (although much bigger than Bultaco or Ossa) things changed through the production cycle. Looking through the VR250 parts book today (kindly lent by Ross ) there are actually three distinct VR250 models yet only the '73 VR and '74 VR are ever discussed. So maybe you are correct that the '69 250GP started as a 4 speed and was updated mid model to 5 speed. I don't think we can say absolutely.

[cappra]

The 53M (250 GP) 4 speed was released in 68'  The 43M (250 GP five) was released in 69'.
The two look similar, but the 53M used different cases (narrower than the 5 speed cases)
The 43M used the new 34m cases which used 3 main bearings and was wide enough to
fit a five speed trans.  I remember seeing both models sold side by side in the dealership.
The mx guys wanted the 4 speed model, the desert, flat track guy's wanted the 5 speed.
The 53M actually uses the same transmission as the 125mx (18M)

[jimg1au]

my web browsing comes up with the same info as cappra
43m 5 speed & 53m 4 speed were sold side by side in 69 only 1100 were sold world wide 43ms
when i get some pics i will post them it might take a few days as it is snowing were the bike is at the moment (usa)
jim

[jimg1au]

the cappra i raced in early 70s had solid foot pegs like the one in firkos pics.the one i am looking at has folding footpegs
jim

[SAABCOMBI]

Mark, l remember that my brothers 360 gp was a 4 speed, my others brothers grey ghost was a 5 speed as l have raced the 72 model, and nearly killed myself on the 360. l rode the 68 model at the time a friend owned and raced it andit was a 4 speed. so they may have went to 5 speed in 69. but their where two different frames specially in the 360, one had a detach rear loop, and the other was part of the frame as we know it.

[firko]

Firko the two tanks your mate has are for the '69 360 GP/DS possibly the DS was a dessert model  with the optional larger tank production run of around 200 model 46M

Spot on...Here's Mikes reply to my querie.
If you look closely at the tank it says Cappra 360 ds,  it's a desert special large tank.   A friend bought that 40 years ago for his Cappra and never put gas in it.   I've had it for almost 20 years now.