WHY CANT VMX BE 96DB???

[211kawasaki]

So whats so wrong with 96db? get yourselves all stirred up about it folks, if you can have 96 posts on why a YZ will only run for 5 minutes then this should be the biggie of all time. Help out your fellow rider and throw your best argument in the ring!

Also why should the Historic RR guys get 102 and we don't? Whats mak'n them so special with their nancy boy leathers and slick tires hu!

DT

[firko]

It's imperative that we gain a 102 decibel limit. To achieve 96 decibels in an air cooled bike that was built during a period when 125db was the norm is a big ask. To quieten the old bikes to 96db the bike would lose quite a bit of it's period integrity due to having to use modern style silencers and in some cases double walled expansion chambers. The bikes will not only suffer in performance, they will also lose a lot of their unique period appearance. If 102db is good enough for our road racing brothers it's good enough for us.

[Wombat]

How many VMX Clubs are out there and how many members are available to sign their name to a petition?
I have no legal experience but I'm aware precedents go a long way in determining rulings.
If a precedent has been set by the Historic Road Racing fraternity then it should be a relatively simple matter for another branch of the sport to achieve parity.
I'm sure there are forum mambers with feet in both Road Racing and VMX camps?
How did the RR boys get their excemption and who can source this information?
The RR fraternity aren't special, but they have their heads screwed on correctly.
I'm yet to join a Club and I don't claim to know enough about the technical aspects of the noise debate, but I do know the value of the 'squeaky wheel gets the oil'.
We need to make a COLLECTIVE noise.
Can the Clubs/this forum agree on the wording of a document and make it available for all to sign?
Does anyone here have previous experience for this sort of thing?

[YSS]

I agree with you are saying , but perhaps a little thought . It is OK to keep the 102 or more, but keep in mind where the  MX tracks are situated. Isn't the closeness to townships  the reason for closing a lot of tracks ? Are we not cutting our own throat by pressing on with high noise levels ?  Or can we lift the level to 102 but put the necessary noise barriers in place around the tracks . ( Dirtwalls , Trees etc). Lets say you live next to a open track  and work shiftwork  and while you try to sleep you hear a constant braap, braap, you would not be impressed , especially if you had no sleep and you are not into bikes. Its only a thought I Had. Of course if you are out in nowhere it makes no difference 96 or 102. Thats why believe  to retain the 102 , so we don't destroy the classics but improve the surroundings of the tracks . The more trees the better ( carbon trade , sound , vision ,anti erosion, shade and dustbarriers). That should be good for the big picture for sure.

[Lozza]

Here is great explanation of noise or Sound Pressure Levels(SPL) from Sound engineer Chris ACT on the PCRA forum.The real drama is the dB scale in NOT linear.

http://postclassicracing.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2606&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105

Air cooled jobbies have more mechanical noise and no fairings to deaden the sound.HOWEVER it isn't hard to comply with a 96dB A exhaust noise.

[YSS]

I think you are right Lozza , I remember when KTM tried to roadregister the first GS in 1978 . The 98 levels where achieved by the muffler , but it was still to loud to be passed. So what the importers had to do , was fitting a padded fearing hanging from the tank down passed the barrel and that did the trick.
Testing was done 6 meters away from the road and bike had to pass through with 80 kmh., thats how it was measured.

[Doc]

I have to admit I was already on the hunt for a new exhaust late last year to bring my bike inline with the new limit. I am still on the hunt as most supplies cannot tell me what DB the pipes average out to. So far from what I've seen and heard it seems Circle F and Vintage Iron pipes may scrape through but there is not a snowballs hope in hell my stock TM or RM pipes will come in under the limit. It's a bother but, my bikes are far from the noisiest so others have a worse problem than I. I think it just plain sucks when the exhausts are std issue from the factory. Fair enough if you want to run DG or some other brand but why should we detract from the originality when after all..it is 'Vintage' racing. The powers that be really need to pull their head out of the sand and look at the real picture! So far as I can see this is dead set kick in the guts for VMX from the controlling body..maybe this governing body is the issue that should be addressed! Why pick on the minority..cause it's easier no doubt!  What's good for one is good for all..where's that petition and can someone loan me a pen! This whole thing sucks!  angry ant has spoken 

[YSS]

Me and my new GS a few moons ago

[attachment deleted by admin]

[cyclegod]

It is OK to keep the 102 or more, but keep in mind where the  MX tracks are situated. Isn't the closeness to townships  the reason for closing a lot of tracks ? Are we not cutting our own throat by pressing on with high noise levels ?

I think township encroachment is to blame for many noise complaints, when I arrived in Perth (1988) the principle riding area was well out of town and bothered no-one. Now they have built new suburbs in and around it forcing it to be shrunk to a ridiculously small size and they have talked about closing it because of noise complaints (plus land demand) Even perths only road track (Barbagello raceway) may close as suburban encroachment draws near and soon Pinjar dirt riding area as well (its across the road from Barbagello).

Having dedicated tracks/riding areas with a noise buffer zone surrounding them (plenty of trees and hedges help) would eliminate most noise complaints and offering those small foam earplugs to spectators would reduce the human impact as well. In Perth there once was a great speedway track at the Claremont showgrounds and all competitors had to fit these huge hideous mufflers to their machines to compete there but persistant complaints and a weak council eventually forced early closure befor a replacement venue was ready (which nearly killed the sport here in Perth) The new venue (next to a drag strip) was in the isolated area of Kwinana but new developments down there may mean its eventual closure too!!

Where we like to ride is fast becoming where people want to live (quietly) and even 96DdB may become untenable. We need to protect our sport, our machines period authenticity and ourselves from these regulations by seeking a dispensation for VMX. In the 1980's in NZ they switched from the standard number plates to large rectangular ones half the size of an esky lid which wouldn't fit many older machines so a dispensation for fitment of old style plates was allowed as machines could not be modified to carry the new plates (they would hit the rear tyre!!)

Speaking personally I would loathe to "HAVE TO" fit some bulky baffling system to my bikes, even if it were designed to look vintage. 102dB is achievable and sustainable for most bikes and perhaps the warning signs and notices at the tracks could be updated to say "Motorcycle racing is dangerous and loud too"

[Wombat]

Claremont Speedway closed down?!
I was based up the road at Karrakatta and regularly attended the speedway during my time in Perth; what a shame.
It was the first time I'd seen locals charge spectators to park vehicles on their yards and footpaths.

Anyways, the noise thing; I agree urban encroachment plays a big part in all this.
I understand my local MX track at Stanmore is in the last months of its Lease; ADMCC has used the land since '77 or so.
Their former track at Wolffdene was nabbed by Council for similar reasons.
A large estate has recently developed across the road from Stanmore - and that was always going to be the beginning of the end.
Personally I wouldn't buy a block of land next to a Raceway or an industrial estate...

Stanmore was originally at the end of the earth; one or two Kilometres from the highway and surrounded by nothing but dense bush (and Bullens Lion Park) for miles!
The worst corrugated and pitted single lane dirt road took the hardy few to a day of rocky and dusty motocross.
But now the suburbs have arrived and the track (I'm led to believe) is off to Jacobs Well; a large sugar cane producing area where it's rumoured another Airport will one day be built.

Solutions like planting thick vegetation will assist to a degree.
Planting the volume required is a lot of work and it takes years and years for any worthwhile effect.
Stanmore remains surrounded by trees - but obviously not enough of them!
Perhaps getting a rein on the legislation is the way to slow things down while the trees grow?

These classic old machines were built and remain true to their era.
I still believe the precedent set by the Historical Road Racers gives us good leverage to stand our ground.
If they've done it what possible argument can there be for VMX to be singled out?

As previously mentioned, the Grand Prix and Indy Cars noise is ear splittingly loud; it actually hurts after a short exposure.
These rods are brand spanking new and continue to evolve, so how the hell do they (legally) justify special treatment? 
There are plenty of precedents for the wise to stand on.

[YSS]

Well Wombat that is good point to put them on par. Because those old bikes usually hade a dual purpose in their days (MX and Roadrace). Does that mean the same bike with nobbys can have 96 and when you change to roadtyres it can have 102 ? If racing has to be castrated , then it should apply across the board , one would think.

[211kawasaki]

so do I take it that 96db is OK?

Regardless of opinion 102db is a better compliance base than 96, remember that an increase of only 6db is equivalent to a perception of noise doubled so it stands to reason that we are talking noise half what it is now and I doubt 50% of the bikes are 102 now let alone 96db.

96DB is an burden that VMX can ill afford, thanks for Lozza for the link but there has to be more opinion out there in factual support of the 102 db we seek. Remember that now you ARE REQUIRED to have your bike at 96db, not some time in the future. The idea is to get acceptance of an exemption of the 96db requirement for the Tassies them move to alter the GCRs to show 102db for VMX. Why should we make it hard for ourselves, I don't want to bolt on 2 feet and 5kg of power sapping muffler on my bikes I want them to look and sound like the period within an achievable noise restriction; that being 102db.

DT

[Freakshow]

I been pushing this 102 db barrow ifor months in every post, and got pooned in the Noise emmsions post amoung others> Can  someone who knows the system write up a petition or motion i can get signed at my club and give to my MA rep or whoever ?

Im a noob when it come to paperwork, but if someone here with the "knowledge" of the MA nepatism can give me something i can get signed please post it here so those of use with an interest in moving this Niose thing up a level, can get somthing happening, we keep talking about the same stuff.  The time has come the Walrus said :

ooo and also if bikes need testng at scrutineering. The problem  that you aren't allowed to start the bikes until after 9am at most circuits. Imagine how long it will take to test all bikes after 9 am.  you ll get 3 races all day then its home time. 

[Tex]

Sadly, all of these arguments are preaching to the converted. Noise limits are ultimately aimed at keeping the general public happy. The general public doesn't care if a bike was made in 2007 or 1967, for the most part they don't want to listen to it.

It isn't fair, but encroaching population means that a lot of motocross tracks are getting closer and closer to urban development all the time. I hope I'm wrong, but I belive a 96db limit is inevitable.

No doubt the road racers are worried. If we end up with a 96db limit, then it's only a matter of time before MA says "well, the VMX boys have been meeting 96db for awhile now, so you can too."

Tex

[Tim754]

 Umm have I done the "Wrong thing "bothering to write myself to MA and the committee? Basically I had to try something not just gripe and whine ,then ask a "Club or something" to write something for me to sign. Look if you cannot find "a petition" try doing the same. I know 100 \200/300 or more letters to the same people on the same agenda ,gets right in their face and is not easily thrown aside like one or two neatly stapled sheets.................. GO on try it! Stop finding lazy half arsed excuses like what is MA address , (F*****g well look it up!!!!!! OK I have put it at the bottom now for you.. ) it is to hot, my dog has fleas, camels eat aardvarks etc etc !!do it or lose it.


What say we start a thread that reads something. "A petition to MA in urgency to review noise limits in regards to Vintage Motocross , The current regulations from 1/1/2008 do not take into account that these machines were not designed to meet  in anyway the 96db limits, and will lead to the loss therefore of classic machines ,competitors and the viewing public of this warmly received branch of Historic racing." ? Tim 754
Now I just printed that out ,signed it and tomorrow I am posting it to MA. Tim

 Contacts MA VMX Commissioners Classic Motocross
David Tanner (Chair)
Mark Austin
Stuart Muntz
IF you would like to voice your opinions or register feedback for a particular Commission, you can do so by contacting Ross Martin from MA (Manager - Commissions and Committees).
Ross can be contacted either via email ([email protected]) or by telephone (03) 9684 0504.

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