Pre 90/Pre 95 in Classic MX. An idea whose time has come?

[worms]

aw gee, I didnt mean to upset the little fellow, sorry Nathan, your just a very naughty boy!

is that better?

Cheers Trev

[trailietrash]

Thank you Nathan.... for just putting up some honest and sensible arguments against the tide of cranky old man waves that batter the pre 90 beach like a never ending tempest that lashes its shore and steals its long held vintage sand.
If the word "vintage" only relates to MX bikes prior to "85" or "75" as some have suggested in this thread then what do people with vintage cars or aeroplanes do now that their "vintage" has been removed by a very small group of offroad motorcycle riders in Australia?
What do the wine growers do now that the word "vintage" has been commandeered and waved about as a flag of honour by the pre 75 crowd. Call each years new crop the annual?
Retro .. Isn't that something that you make in the modern world to look like it did in a previous era 
Fair Dinkum!!
Vintage is a word that has grown from its origin to mean annual, and one day those pre 90 and even pre 95 will be accepted as vintage bikes and by then some of you stone-age mutant winging turtles will not have to worry if the "Vintage" thing happened or not for by then you will have your names carved in stone.

[AjayVMX]

There's obviously some confusion here. 

THIS is a VMX bike...


This isn't


Nor is this...

[firko]

Thank you Nathan....for just putting up some honest and sensible arguments against the tide of cranky old man waves that batter the pre 90 beach like a never ending tempest that lashes its shore and steals its long held vintage sand.

Holy moly!!! You've plagiarised Barbara Cartland.
That KTM looks pretty familiar Ajay. I don't think it's original owner would think it's vintage either.

[montynut]

Having been entrenched in a number these drawn out philosophical discussions with Nathan in the past I've come to the conclusion that no matter what your opinion is on the particular subject is, if it's different to Nathans he'll keep hammering post after post to try and convince us poor bastards that he's right and that none of us are 'sensible' enough to see it. One by one everyone usually drops off the discussion, worn down by his bull terrier persistence and need to convince us that he's right.

I feel drained after one of these sessions, hence my early surrender in this particular debate. I feel like I've surrendered to the enemy to end the war.

I know exactly how you feel Firko. I've been watching this thread and been tempted to post but thought, can I really be bothered entering another thread with the style of debate used .

Pre90 and later supporters need to stop telling everyone "Its time" and start the action that is the only way it will happen. I personally am not interested in these eras although I acknowledge that they will enter the Vintage / Classic / Post Classic / Pre Modern MX section of our sport at some time.

[Freakshow]

Ok what have i missed 


Meh  nothing...

All you need to know is after pre 75 nothing else matters.........   
you can close the thread now ...

[odd1]

That KTM looks Vintage to me When was the last time you saw a center stand on a enduro bike?

[Graeme M]

It's funny where this thread went. Everyone is down on Nathan yet I started it. Of course if you disagree with me like that I'll delete your post and ban you from the forum... forever.  

A lot of people are saying if you want Pre 90 or whatever go and do it. Well, people are. VIPER and QVMX are two clubs with Pre 90 as I understand it. I wasn't trying to say let's all go do it and the older bikes be buggered.

I was recognising it will happen, sometime sooner rather than later. Vintage as a recognised concept is simply old bikes (cars, movies etc). Not sure of the correct definition, but if it's 20 years then Pre 90 is now. If it's 30 years then it's only 5-10 years away.

I was simply saying that it would be good to set up the rules now to include later eras, so that when the time comes it can be done in the same way around Australia and no-one will need to reinvent the wheel. I was hoping for some serious debate about how those rules should look.

I completely accept that what we see as VMX is Pre 75 bikes and those Johnny come lately's Evo and Pre 85 bikes. But we can't forever ignore that eventually a Pre 95 bike will be 'vintage'. Maybe that's in 2025? Maybe it'll be a little earlier? All I intended was to set the  scene for that to happen ion a measured way and at the same time lock in our notion of true vintage MX so it doesn't evenbtually get lost from the sport...

Still at the end of the day I am not especially passionate about it. Personally, I don't care really. Just seemed like a good idea. I shan't be buying a 1989 CR250 any time soon...

[worms]

natural progression thru clubs, not debates or rules and guidelines, any club can move forward if the members choose, but as a whole VMX needs to be protected at some point otherwise the whole meaning will be devalued.

your ideas are fair Graeme but do we really need anything other than what currently exist,

Nathan needs to realise his point is just that, allow others to have the same right without including a debating team.

we're just a bunch of silly old farts saying enough is enough, start to build new clubs for these generations and not expect everybody to agree that we have to be one family.

does that make sense?

Cheers Trev

[lukeb1961]

And being a stubborn prick is one of my more endearing traits.

I've never met one of those - I always assumed people were like me; full of charm, grace, style, elegance, warmth,tact, empathy and fashion sense!  Yes Minister said it well - "In politics you have to learn to say things with tact and finesse, you berk!"

[Mick D]

The ongoing health of any club relies on the commitment and strength of its membership.

I am a member of NSW Heaven. Good to see the current health of the club and the addition of new membership, particularly that of a younger demographic. Great considering the natural retritian rate of members going to the real Heaven, grey nomad thing or just unable to use their collection because of incapacitating ill health.

I believe the indoctrination of new blood is detrimental to the long term survival of our movement. I like that new term “Retro Racing”, sadly allot of the young embrace retro as “cool” and “vintage” as a laughable fossil term. 

One of my nephews has a 1989 Honda CR250. He is a keen off road motorcylist.
I have been trying to get a spare rear wheel for his bike for the local dirt track thing, as a path to his indoctrination to the older bikes. After his weekend exploits, it seems we now need two rear wheels.

Amazing that he was able to limp away from this.

To those building this new ground swell I say “good luck”.  One of the greatest things in my recent life was the discovery and existence of a hard working movement called VMX. I see some way older blokes still in there for the hunt. They are happy and content, wether they win, place or draw. They have what it takes to earn my respect and admiration. If there is any room on the weekends agenda,  I personally would prefer to see an extra one or two age races for them first. I hope this wonder world of  retro VMX racing doesn’t die before I do. 

[head]

My problem with Pre 90/95 is! How do you police modifications and bike eligibility? Fitting disk brake calipers, rotors & forks of far newer bikes. It is very hard to differentiate between suspension forks of any newish bike. Just say I buy a 1989 totally original bike to race and some dude shows up with a 1989 model with brake components of a modern bike a set of forks that your not sure of what bike they came from. Are you going to let him race. Its happening now with Pre 90 bikes. It is far to easy to bend the rules and build a super trick bike. A Pre 90/95 bike is way different to more modern bikes, but so easy to sneak far superior parts onto. There will be more whinging and bickering about bikes than there is with the current format. With Pre85 and Evo its easy, every one knows bike eligibility by just looking at the bike.
I am only new to Heaven club this year, but I bought bikes to suit classes they run. Not a more modern bike, and hope to change rules. It is still pretty easy to get a Evo or Pre85 bike.

[Mick D]

My problem with Pre 90/95 is! How do you police modifications and bike eligibility? Fitting disk brake calipers, rotors & forks of far newer bikes. It is very hard to differentiate between suspension forks of any newish bike. Just say I buy a 1989 totally original bike to race and some dude shows up with a 1989 model with brake components of a modern bike a set of forks that your not sure of what bike they came from. Are you going to let him race. Its happening now with Pre 90 bikes. It is far to easy to bend the rules and build a super trick bike. A Pre 90/95 bike is way different to more modern bikes, but so easy to sneak far superior parts onto. There will be more whinging and bickering about bikes than there is with the current format. With Pre85 and Evo its easy, every one knows bike eligibility by just looking at the bike.
I am only new to Heaven club this year, but I bought bikes to suit classes they run. Not a more modern bike, and hope to change rules. It is still pretty easy to get a Evo or Pre85 bike.

Good post. definitely a "head" of the rest

I am hoping if it gets of the ground? that maybe there might be the opportunity to get together for a inter-club bike/race bonanza show meet , once a year.

[AjayVMX]

That KTM looks pretty familiar Ajay. I don't think it's original owner would think it's vintage either.

Yes, I think you're right there Firko! 

[vmx42]

Jeff - mining tax..............................ready to go again eh!!!!    Count me in 

Hey Rosco,
Good to see that you are back, batteries recharged and ready for combat.
Take your place behind the Mad Monk, keep your head down [and good luck]. 
VMX42