EVOLUTION/OEM - What Is Your Interpretation?

[paul]

so that decision only affected one person .
 and what did he think about that.
 or did nt matter to the powers that be .
was there not enough competitors in evo in 07

[VMX Andrew]

Hoony....I've just gone through my computer photo files and can't find a a shot of either bike. I know I've got shots on transparencies but it's too much of a hassle to scan them. Maybe Maico31 or another Queenslander will have a shot of Verns gorgeous Cheney and perhaps someone took a photo of Frank Veradis BSA at the Coffs Harbour Nats or maybe a West Aussie may be able to help. I did a huge five page colour spread for Dirt Action on Verns bike and the case back in the June '98 issue .

  hi firko i just went and had a look at my june 98 dirt action issue  and it hasnt got verns bike in it....it has got a maico aw400 owned by edgar phipps....looks the goods too....ill go and have a look at my other mags though....cheers

[Rossvickicampbell]

I know the answer - we reintroduce the AMA claiming rule!!!!!! - then when somebody turns up on a bike I really like I can get it for $15 and go and win everything?

How far do you think I will get?

cheers

Rossco

[All Things 414]

Sounds like some sour grapes appearing now . I think VIPER's rolling along quite nicely thank you. I managed to race one bike in four different events last year. Can't argue with that........

[BAHNZY]

O/K, a couple of things for the record.

1. "Bahnsy" is one of 5 people that represent the VIPER Members.

2. Correct, the EVOLUTION specific class was dropped for 2007. We then altered the age classes to be EVOLUTION & Pre80.
This was the case all the way through 2007. For clarification please see http://www.vipermx.com/schedule.htm

3. EVOLUTION in season 2006 would start off with 10-15 riders in the first race and dwindle away for the remaining races as riders preserved themselves and their bikes for the age and championship classes. This was one (1) of the factors in shifting the EVOLUTION focus. Perhaps it was a wrong decision, I'll cop that.

4. VIPER don't force anyone to do anything. We try our best to provide a race format that allows everyone to get plenty of riding.

All i have been trying to do is get a foundation understanding about EVOLUTION racing, nothing more, nor less. I apologize to the forum members for the actions of certain individuals that saw fit, under an alias to air dirty laundry.

I will now retreat, genuinely shattered.

[All Things 414]

Good on'ya Rod. You and the team do a GREAT JOB! Hold your head high son.......

[magoo]

Hey Bahnsy, welcome to the world of club politics.

[Graeme M]

Well I for one think it's great to see a little VIPER in-fighting. For a while there it looked to all the world like NSW couldn't get its act together and was full of malcontents and draconian nazi wannabes posing as volunteer officials, while Victoria, Queensland and WA were icons of Vintage errr... Heaven. But now we see the truth!!!

Actually, I don't think the thread was supposed to be a whinge about VIPER, Bahnsy posted a perfectly good question about Evo and we've had a whole lot of mostly constructive discussion. Let's keep it like that.

[Rossvickicampbell]

nothing whatsoever to do with the topic but does this mean I get the first post for 2008!!!!!

You beauty

[magoo]

Oh well, that seems to be the end of that then.

[Nathan S]

Nathan the nervousness you felt at Coffs is natural for your first venture into the Nats concept. We all worry about that unforseen situation. I was myself concerned about whether my alloy swingarm would pass muster for pre 70 and I wrote the bloody rulebook!
If every potential situation was covered by the rulebook it would be as thick as a brick and too complicated. The self regulation system has worked perfectly for twenty years and in my time at the pointy end of eligibility legislation we've only had two major shit fights that have needed legal interpitation. The first situation, the infamous Vern Grayson Cheney Triumph legality case resulted in the bike being permanantly banned from pre '65 and Vern, a great racer and his beautiful bike being lost to the sport forever. The other case, the Frank Veradi Pre '65 BSA Special case still raises its ugly head as it almost did in Coffs Harbour. I mention these cases for the following reason. In the Grayson case it went to civil court and eventually the High court. Vern had the services of a QC and a room full of legal experts were called by both the defence and MA's legal team to give opinion on the legality of the bike. I still have reams of paperwork covering the case and in the end it still came down to opinion, not written fact.

This is pretty much what I'm saying... If the guy that wrote the rules doesn't know if his bike will pass scrutiny, then there must be a problem.
If an eligibility issue can go to the High Court, and still not be resolved in a definitive, factual way, then there must be a problem.

The rules have served the sport well - as I've said several times previously, the intent of the VMX rules is sound and well supported. But as time passes, competitor expectations and knowledge of the original intent will inevitably change. Re-writing the rules to match those altered expectations and knowledge is not a slight on the original author(s); it's just a part of the evoloution of our sport.

I won't pretend to know the ins-and-outs of the Grayson thing, beyond what I read in the published media ~10 years back, but it seems bizarre that anyone would take it to the High Court... Fair enough that Grayson has an expensive bike that he wants to race, but who is prepared to dig their heels in that deeply to prevent someone racing over a technicality?!?

[Hoony]

Nathans on the money.

i think this is what Bahnsy's intention was all along, get it sorted so this sort of shit does not happen on race day (and fork it up for us all in the process) let alone the high court for forks sake.

[DJRacing]

Exactly Nathan,  you hit it on the head. And yes Hoony, what Bahnsy had started the post with, wasn't his own personal thoughts but the rules of the evo class. He asked how YOU/SOMEONE/ANYONE would "Interperate the rules".  Not if you liked/hated them or even if you thought they were right or wrong. And it is glaringly obvious with all the different thoughts posted in here on the evo rules that they need looking at.
 With all the parts mentioned throughout this thread, there wasn't a fully agreed upon ruling weather they were legal or not. So if this is the train of thought in here what happens from one race meeting to another with different scrutinizer's'?? Is you bike legal at one race meeting but at another it isn't??
 Do other riders protest because they believe their "Interpretation of the rules" is correct??

This question should've never needed to be asked,  "EVOLUTION/OEM-What is YOUR interpretation?"

Because there shouldnt be any need to ask it. The rules should be written in black and white, not shades of gray. If you read my second posting in this thread, am I close to being correct or not?? You be the judge, but remember I don't race over there, I dint know what has been said or what is common practice at your meetings so when I read this thread at the start and posted what I did, I was and still am an outsider and don't know your rules. My interpretation of OEM is 'Original Equipment Manufacturer', so I take that as being not allowed to mix and match bikes. Tell me if I'm right or wrong??

If half of you or even one of you say I'm wrong then are the rules badly written or am I just a dumb ass??
But after 7 pages of discussing the subject people are still disagreeing. Why is that??

[firko]

Can we move on from this. Our sport is now in its 20th year and we've got along pretty well without having to legislate against stupidity. Let's just carry on and deal with the percieved ugliness if and when it ever arises. Now, what about that crazy Clarence forking a duck eh??

[Nathan S]

Can we move on from this. Our sport is now in its 20th year and we've got along pretty well without having to legislate against stupidity. Let's just carry on and deal with the percieved ugliness if and when it ever arises. 

You mean like shit going to court? Or the other issues that are still unresolved?

I can see where you're coming from: Let's not get too serious and it'll all be fine.

But it isn't all fine. We've got outstanding issues from ten years ago (and maybe longer?).

What would have happened if your pre-70 bike had been knocked back at Coffs? You'd have cracked the shits, just like I would have if my bike had been knocked back...
But now the boundary has been pushed that tiny little bit further - and it will continue to get pushed further and further until it steps over someone's line in the sand, and then we'll almost inevitably end up with a big stinking pile of pooh to deal with....

The world is a changed place compared to 1988, whether we like it or not. As I said earlier, everyone benefits from well written rules.