What Nationals would you ride if they were split?

[Nathan S]

Well, c'mon... surely the future of the Nationals should be determined by the people who actually compete?If Trev wants to take a swipe, then I'll take one back.

[worms]

that wasnt a swipe, wheres the swipe, young fellow?

you can call me an old bastard if that will make you feel better

back to age groups

cheers trev

[DJRacing]

Just asking here....

1/ In the hay day of VMX, how many Pre75 riders would turn up to race at the Nationals and how many Pre75 riders race at the Nationals now?

2/ Since the age group racing is still available now at the Nationals, what age group has the biggest numbers on the start line?

3/ If age group racing is so important, then I would think since we are all getting older, then the older age group classes would be the biggest,  are they?

4/ If the numbers of younger riders (20-35) are getting smaller, then, by most poeples reckoning in here that by giving them age group racing their numbers will grow. Is this true?

5/ Has anyone taken into consideration the thoughts of the younger VMX rider wanting to maybe race against his boyhood hero but cant because that older hero races in an age group class.
(fully understandable, its his choice)

6/ In the last 10yrs of the Nationals, have the numbers in Pre75 (which has age group racing) increased or decreased?

7/ If age group racing was included for Pre78, EVO and Pre85, what ages would the classes be and do you think the numbers at the Nationals would increase?

[JohnnyO]

DJ i could probably answer a couple of those
1/ from memory at the '93 & '94 nats there were about 150 riders
2/ In '94 the biggest numbers were 30 -39yrs, i believe now the 40-49yrs would be biggest
3/ again 40-49 i think
4/ i doubt it
5/ no.. i doubt they'd know who the stars of yesteryear were
6/ i would think they've decreased as newer eras have come in
7/ possibly 16-39, 40-49, 50-59, 60 and over?

[firko]

Those sports are 'one on one' (or one team vs one team) and don't have the luxury of being able to pointscore age groups seperately.

What about veterans athletics and swimming to name just two sports with a similar structure to motocross. They're indiividual pursuits where one competes against other individuals using the age group system. There is a start and a finish where the first person home is the winner. Sadly you'll probably find some other pedantic nit pick and take the argument onto some other tangent so unfortunately that does it for me Nathan...you win old buddy. I guess you must be right, us old fellas don't have a clue about our sports future and of course as I don't race any more, everything I say is totally irrelevent anway. I knew that missing the Tassie Nats would come back to haunt me. 

You've rejected every single argument I've thrown at you so there's no further point in me carrying on with this.

[firko]

5/ Has anyone taken into consideration the thoughts of the younger VMX rider wanting to maybe race against his boyhood hero but cant because that older hero races in an age group class.

I can't answer most of your questions without doing some research Don but question 5 is easily answered. Our young rider can have ample opportunity to race his childhood hero in the open age races. That's the whole point that seems to be getting miscontrued here. As well as age group racing, all in open age group capacity racing is still an equally valid part of a championship event. Age group racing is only part of the overall meeting. Remember also that age groups aren't used for pre 60/65/70,4 stroke and sidecar classes. They're only used for 125,250 and over 300cc capacity classes.

[Rossvickicampbell]

yep - I was gunna say the same.  Nathan - you have defeated me.  And yes as for Firko - just because the older guy has an age group to ride in doesn't mean he cant ride in other OPEN classes - if he wants (there is that word again Nathan) and satisfy the younger guys wishes if thats correct.

[Nathan S]

What about veterans athletics and swimming to name just two sports with a similar structure to motocross. ... There is a start and a finish where the first person home is the winner. Sadly you'll probably find some other pedantic nit pick ....

You mean like the bit where there are only a few lanes in an olympic swimming pool/athletics track, but 30~40 gate positions on a MX start line?
If the swimming race had 8 starters, would they bother seperating the racers into age groups?

Who is going to ride in these age races? At Broadford there were plenty of races with less than half a dozen guys on the line - carve them into age groups and plenty of races will literally have only one rider in them.
Anyone care to explain how this helps anyone? I can see them creating huge, pointless gaps in the programme, and devaluing the classes that are actually contested.

[worms]

Well, c'mon... surely the future of the Nationals should be determined by the people who actually compete?If Trev wants to take a swipe, then I'll take one back.

Nathan, there would be no competition , no racing, no clubs, no organisers, and no officials want to have anything to do with it, if only the racers had a voice. oh goodie, thats means me as a competitor,MA ofiicial, organiser, scurtineer can stay at home till the last minute because all you young guns will have everything sorted.

sorry Nathan a submission has gone with our clubs delegate to next MA/MQ meeting for age group racing for all class's, we will need to put a stop to it as it was not only competitors that voted, organisers where their as with officials and the tucka lady( i think she knows more about this than you )  old guys racing together sounds simple really.

sorry nathan, but your points are not the discussion, so stop going on about it and move on
Cheers Trev,

[090]

Stop using Broadford as an example. It was the worst Nationals as far as numbers for all the reasons discussed elsewhere. How about you use Conondale as your example. Where pre  75 age groups went well. But that would not suit your argument (which is, why age groups *).

You mean like the bit where there are only a few lanes in an olympic swimming pool/athletics track, but 30~40 gate positions on a MX start line? Roll Eyes
If the swimming race had 8 starters, would they bother seperating the racers into age groups?

The pedantic answer to a pedantic question is, how big would a pool have to be to have 30-40 swimmers in one race? How many swimmers have entered? Could there be 30-40? Maybe there are heats and then finals seeing as the pool is only so big. Bit like heats at a national vmx meet if there are more than 40 starters. Relevance to age group racing?...ZERO.  Merely a comment to show how age groups are used in other sports. Are the other sports exactly the same? Of course not. But the similarities are close enough to give an example of age groups that work.

* Age groups work as seen in National events other than Broadford. The smallest group would probably be the youngest which is no big deal as it is set up for the older generation more so. Do older blokes like it ...yes. Why? ( as been said) To ride with guys their own age that also hopefully ride to go home safely to their homes/family/business etc. To not have to ride against a mad kid( whether true or not, it is a reason for said old boys). To get an extra ride on their fav bike. AND to really have a good chance of winning or placing against guys their own age that they probably rode with BACK IN THE DAY! Every body wants a trophy...really.
My reality with the racing side. I know that in the big picture I am a very average rider and in no way could I cut it in moderns. It doesn't make it a hollow victory for me to win anything on offer. Same as the guy who has just won the over 70's riding green bikes backwards that only have one leg and their tongue hanging out class. The guy that won that class would be feeling pretty good about himself.

If this long winded answer to your original question (which has all been said before)is not enough, then you just don't get it...period.
And yes work is slow atm.

[worms]

too many words, being an old bloke i fall asleep while readin~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~uh where was I,              g it!

Cheers Trev

[supersenior 50]

Right on 090. PanpacMasters has approx. 10,000 competitors spread over 34 sports including bikes.
ALL these sports are run in age catagories--some up to "over 80".Veteran sport is huge world wide and growing.The "World Masters" has more participants than the Olympics. Many ex Olympic & world champions are extending their sporting life through masters events.
Look outside the box--the answer is to state the bleeding obvious.

[Freakshow]

All i want to know is HOW can i ride up a class here

how about this then, time lines

1- babypowders , under 35

2-wife and 2 kids, under 40

3- wife, 2 kids and the mistress, under 45

4- happly married, own 10 motorbikes, under 50

5- had several wives, new girlfriend, 15 motorbikes, under 55

6- dont give rats, eat what i want, drink what i want, do what i want for the over55

[firko]

Back to the original thread . If a split would eventuate, how would the freed up time be used ?

Walter, at the risk of stating the bloody obvious....the extra time would be used to run Capacity Age Group races! and if there's any spare time still available, extra practice sessions, a Superseniors (over seventies) session and perhaps parade laps for non racing legends or bikes with historic interest.

[vmx42]

Walter, at the risk of stating the bloody obvious....the extra time would be used to run Capacity Age Group races! and if there's any spare time still available, extra practice sessions, a Superseniors (over seventies) session and perhaps parade laps for non racing legends or bikes with historic interest.

…or time to sample a Maicogirl Cheese platter!! And possibly a cleansing ale?