What Nationals would you ride if they were split?

[090]

Some of those posts seem to contradict themselfs .
The same people that say they only race for fun , now say they are happier with a trophy ?

Um, I think I said that. And most people know I am a trophy hunter.

To me, not beating the best , means its a hollow victory. A bit like what they have in soccer and football . Best and fairest , most improved  and the list goes on . I just love those presentation nights  Grin

When its all said and done, any win is a good win. Makes one feel good. If I am lucky enough to make it to 70 and am able to throw a leg over, I would be happy as punch to accept a trophy of any kind.

[huskibul]

  Spot-on 414, I bang bars with young blokes on our hometrack all the time (on some pretty meaty gear at times, Ha!)and luv it! i think come raceday though theres a lot more attraction in riding against blokes of the same vintage/era/outlooks, it  just add's to the experience ,as iam sure most of  the younger blokes would too like racing with their peers also, also i'd say most people that want to win/place a race want to cross the cheq flag , not halfway threw the pack as may be the case with mixed classes

[firko]

It's one of those "vibe" things Nathan. Not everything can be measured, photographed and sent away for analysis (like some other "riverting" topics).

This is getting creepy, my chum Ross and I agreeing on things is happening way too frequently for my liking .
I'm rarely at a loss for words but I got a bit lost when trying to define the "why" in Nathans question. Ross's vibe thing is exactly what I was looking for. The success of age group racing is indefinable, it just feels right and it works. As in other sports (as I mentioned earlier) why shouldn't it be accepted that older sportsmen be allowed the opportunity to compete with their age peers? Imagine a 50 year old rugby player being expected to ruck down with 25 year olds or that same 50 year old having to line up in a sprint race next to a 20 year old? Nobody would seriously consider doing that but because it's vintage motocross it seems it's not relevent or needed? The success of all post "glory days" sports is based around creating an environment that allows older competitors a platform to continue their sporting life way past their 'use by date'. The Masters Games, Golden Oldies Rugby and many other veteran age specific sporting series have taken on world importance as more and more Baby Boomers and Gen X sportsmen wish to remain in their sport.

The Golden Oldies World Rugby Festival is being held in Sydney in September/October and they're expecting 4000 entrants comprising of 200 teams from 20 countries...all 35 and over and in November the Pan Pacific Masters Games are on on the Gold Coast with 10 000 veteran competitors competing in 33 sports including VMX and Vinduro. I mention these events to emphasise the importance that is placed on promoting sports for those of us past our sporting glory days and to see how big it's become. Australian VMX was the first to recognise that there is a potential to draw riders from retirement by creating an age group system offering parity and now similar system is used in our sport all over the world. We got it right.

To me, not beating the best , means its a hollow victory.

If winning an age group race is a hollow victory Walt, then a win in pre60/65/70 is equally as hollow because you weren't competing against the fastest and newest bikes at the meeting (theoretically pre '75). If I use your 'hollow victory' analogy as an example, your perfect world would have all ages competing against each other in all in races. There'd be no age group racing for both riders or bikes because to win anything less than the 'main race' would be a hollow victory. My point is that you are competing against the best of the best in your age group. Let's not forget that the all ages capacity races are still on the program. If you don't want to race in an age group, don't! Just stick to the all ages races and everyone's happy.

[LWC82PE]

I think what Nathan is trying to get across is that fair enough if you want to ride with your peers for the 'vibe' but its a false sense of security if you think you will be safer riding in age groups and that all motorsport is dangerous and you are at no more of a risk of of being injured racing against younger guys than people your own age. There will be guys that run you off the track or run into you no matter what ages you race against. I think its a good idea to have age groups and non age groups. That way guys can race agianst their peers if they feel more comfortable that way and then the guys who want to give the younger ones a run for their money and see whos really best can do that. Then there is the best of both worlds and it keeps everyone happy.

[worms]

how about this then, time lines

1- babypowders , under 35

2-wife and 2 kids, under 40

3- wife, 2 kids and the mistress, under 45

4- happly married, own 10 motorbikes, under 50

5- had several wives, new girlfriend, 15 motorbikes, under 55

6- dont give rats, eat what i want, drink what i want, do what i want for the over55

that might be easier to follow for ya Nathan

Cheers trev

[Graham]

Sooo we are not aloud to race up class's  ( in fair of embrassing others on better bikes than ours )

Are we aloud to race down on age group races, so we can give the kids a hidding ?

[Nathan S]

Firko, the point about age group competitions in other sports isn't entirely relevant.
Those sports are 'one on one' (or one team vs one team) and don't have the luxury of being able to pointscore age groups seperately.

They also have more competitors than the competition format can handle, meaning that the total pool of competitors needs to be broken up.
In contrast, the under-40 pre-75 all-powers races at Broadford had seven starters at the first race... Broken up into capacity classes, it would make for a lot of very dull races with only a couple of blokes riding around...

[Rossvickicampbell]

Nathan - thats wrong.  The overriding thought is over 50's or whatever rugby groups - meaning old farts playing against old farts.  Same with us - if I want to ride "up" with the big boys so be it - if not then with my peers.  Something those of us it affects appear to want!

[Nathan S]

*sigh* C'mon Ross, you're smarter than that... I've never doubted the wanting part!

A MX race can be 'all-in' - if the grid and the track licence could handle it, you could conceivably have every single bike a the meeting in the one race and score the classes seperately. (I'm not saying this would be a good thing, but hopefully it illustrates my point).
You can't do this with hockey or cricket, where one team competes against one other.

Similarly, rugby is an even worse example because its a full-contact sport where youthful enthusiasm/robustness is particularly valuable. While MX can get rough and tumble at times, its not a part of being competitive and there are penalties for over-stepping the low limits.

[worms]

Nathan, age group racing has been a part of Nats before you were born

the conv is about the spliting of the Nats, so thus poses the ? to introduce age group racing for all, not just pre 75.

it isnt a feisability study, either you like it or you dont, stop dragging it out and move on.

QVMX had a show of hands at the Bidadababah race day and it was a overwhelming yes to age group racing, and wear a non-competitive club.

Cheers Trev

[JohnnyO]

I can't believe this age group arguement is still going! Every valid reason for it has been put forward several times.
95% are in favour of it... end of story.

[worms]

we are dealing with littlens

[Nathan S]

...who have been to more Nationals in the last few years than any of the people who disagree with him...

[All Things 414]

...who have been to more Nationals in the last few years than any of the people who disagree with him...

 

Oh well that settles it then.
Nathen, you're 100% correct. The rest of you, go and have a good, long hard look at yourselves......

[JohnnyO]

...who have been to more Nationals in the last few years than any of the people who disagree with him...

 

Oh well that settles it then.
Nathen, you're 100% correct. The rest of you, go and have a good, long hard look at yourselves......

Yep.. after 18 years of racing vintage mx i've met my match