Author Topic: Evo ultimate class  (Read 31328 times)

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Offline worms

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #105 on: October 27, 2009, 07:04:44 pm »
no more, just making a point!

and now for something completely different!

cheers Worms

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #106 on: October 27, 2009, 08:01:44 pm »
I am reading the GCR's what book are you reading?

You've read the GCRs and made your own interpretations, same as everyone else has.

The bit that you keep letting yourself down on, is a spectacular lack of ability to recognise that there's "interpretation" in everybody's reading of the rules. Your interpretation is not automatically any more (or automatically any less) valid than any other person's interpretation.

Look at the contradictions in your statements. For example:
"... components from the period of manufacture of the machine are allowed, modifications or conponents after that period are not allowed."
and then
"I mean if I broke my clutch lever in a fall is some guy going to tell me that i need to find another bike or replace the lever with one from 1980?"

The black and white bits says "No later components", end of story. You need to add some interpretation to your reading of the rules to decide that a new clutch lever is acceptable.

I can go on but there's no point in arguing the details, until you understand the concept that I'm trying to explain.

The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline JohnnyO

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #107 on: October 27, 2009, 08:04:19 pm »

Try $150 plus $10 each extra class. It cost me $190 to enter 5 classes at Conondale.

Johnny O I dont get it .What was all the BS about riding one bike in two class's then?
Moto i'm not sure but i entered 5 different bikes in 5 classes.

Offline motomaniac

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #108 on: October 27, 2009, 08:34:47 pm »

Try $150 plus $10 each extra class. It cost me $190 to enter 5 classes at Conondale.

Johnny O I dont get it .What was all the BS about riding one bike in two class's then?
Moto i'm not sure but i entered 5 different bikes in 5 classes.

okay so its entry per rider . sorry guys.

Offline VMX247

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #109 on: October 27, 2009, 08:47:03 pm »
back to back races. :o .riding up a class ...  :o  who's your fitness coach  :P
cheers
Best is in the West !!

Offline holeshot buddy

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #110 on: October 27, 2009, 09:06:20 pm »
so technically that means i can ride my rm370
in pre 78 evo and pre85 open classes ::)
to bad for the guy in pre85 he cant ride anywhere else :'(
follow me to first turn

Offline motomaniac

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #111 on: October 27, 2009, 09:18:40 pm »
You've read the GCRs and made your own interpretations, same as everyone else has.

The bit that you keep letting yourself down on, is a spectacular lack of ability to recognise that there's "interpretation" in everybody's reading of the rules. Your interpretation is not automatically any more (or automatically any less) valid than any other person's interpretation.

Look at the contradictions in your statements. For example:
"... components from the period of manufacture of the machine are allowed, modifications or conponents after that period are not allowed."
and then
"I mean if I broke my clutch lever in a fall is some guy going to tell me that i need to find another bike or replace the lever with one from 1980?"

The black and white bits says "No later components", end of story. You need to add some interpretation to your reading of the rules to decide that a new clutch lever is acceptable.
Yes indeed you need to  somehow interpret it all rather than take it absolutely literally.If the replacing of worn out or broken parts was not allowed that would mean the end of the sport.Maintaining your bike is part of the sport wether its vintage or modern.The rules for period competitions are there to insure that the replacement of parts are correct for the period specified and that some competitors dont gain advantage over others buy modifying or installing more advanced components from a later period.Consumerables that everyone needs are not contendable.
Everybody needs them.
Nobody  actually needs tech advanced components that have been appearing on vintage bikes more and more to ride or race and not everyone has the resources or even wants to install tech advanced components from the 90's and later on their vintage or Evo bikes.The Gcr's are there to keep the comp fair and accessable.I can't see how you can argue that allowing ofchanging a broken lever means that you can allow upgraded mechanical components on a machine as well.
As a foot note the hybrid class that has been discussed on this thread would be just that hybrid ,everybody would be aware that machines would have later conponents so no issue.The current Evo class is not a hybrid class and should never be.

cheers , no bad blood



[/quote]

Offline Mick22

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #112 on: October 27, 2009, 09:18:48 pm »
so technically that means i can ride my rm370
in pre 78 evo and pre85 open classes ::)
to bad for the guy in pre85 he cant ride anywhere else :'(

Yes he can...in Pre 90  ;D
Looking fo a TZ750 anyone with any leads please PM

Offline yzhilly

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #113 on: October 27, 2009, 09:19:02 pm »
I thought you could only ride up one Class ? at the nats.
yzhilly ,YZ400E,,YZ250J,YZ125K,YZ100K,IT465H ,IT400D,IT250K , IT200L,XR250,XL250R,XL200R,XL125
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Offline motomaniac

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #114 on: October 27, 2009, 09:25:05 pm »
I thought you could only ride up one Class ? at the nats.

Depends Hilly , GCR's say all bikes before the cut of date , I think the supp regs for the last Nats might have had the one clas up thing  but not for all class's.It confusing.

BTW sorry that I didnt get back to you on the parts.Got side tracked .Do you still need anything?I still got a some bits set aside for you.

Offline Mick22

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #115 on: October 27, 2009, 09:29:08 pm »
I am reading the GCR's what book are you reading?

I can go on but there's no point in arguing the details, until you understand the concept that I'm trying to explain.



Nathan, I agree the rules are way to open to many interpretations - which may or may not all be correct ???

18.7.14.3 is a doozy!! They way i read it you cannot change anything that is not Pre 85 NOS. definitely no fat bars or for that matter a late model clutch lever or chain or tyre etc.

Until these rules are rewritten these arguments will go on forever more ::)
Looking fo a TZ750 anyone with any leads please PM

Offline Lozza

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #116 on: October 27, 2009, 10:06:30 pm »
Not really Mick that say 'Modifications using later equipment are not allowed" meaning you cannot modify your existing machine with 'equipment' out of period. That does not mean 'replacement' which is what you do with a chain, handle bars tyres etc etc.If square wheels suddenly become all the rage in 2010 means no matter how good they are you can't retro fit them.
The classic road race rules are easy to follow and well written and they have log books ;)
Jesus only loves two strokes

Offline motomaniac

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #117 on: October 27, 2009, 10:29:14 pm »
Not really Mick that say 'Modifications using later equipment are not allowed" meaning you cannot modify your existing machine with 'equipment' out of period. That does not mean 'replacement' which is what you do with a chain, handle bars tyres etc etc.If square wheels suddenly become all the rage in 2010 means no matter how good they are you can't retro fit them.
The classic road race rules are easy to follow and well written and they have log books ;)

Pretty simple really.

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #118 on: October 27, 2009, 11:11:43 pm »
Yes indeed you need to  somehow interpret it all rather than take it absolutely literally.If the replacing of worn out or broken parts was not allowed that would mean the end of the sport.Maintaining your bike is part of the sport wether its vintage or modern.The rules for period competitions are there to insure that the replacement of parts are correct for the period specified and that some competitors dont gain advantage over others buy modifying or installing more advanced components from a later period.Consumerables that everyone needs are not contendable.
Everybody needs them.
Nobody  actually needs tech advanced components that have been appearing on vintage bikes more and more to ride or race and not everyone has the resources or even wants to install tech advanced components from the 90's and later on their vintage or Evo bikes.The Gcr's are there to keep the comp fair and accessable.I can't see how you can argue that allowing ofchanging a broken lever means that you can allow upgraded mechanical components on a machine as well.
As a foot note the hybrid class that has been discussed on this thread would be just that hybrid ,everybody would be aware that machines would have later conponents so no issue.The current Evo class is not a hybrid class and should never be.

cheers , no bad blood



Ah... now we're getting somewhere.

The next step is to work out "What is a consumable part?"... At the moment, the GCRs don't even try to consider them.

Stuff like tyres and chains are obvious, but what about exhaust pipes, rear shocks, handlebars, etc?

How do you write a rule that bans fat bars, but not old-school cross-brace-less alloy bars, or old-school 1" OD bars?
Similarly, how do you enforce a ban on PD valves without pulling down everyone's forks at every meeting?

In any historic form of motorsport, the equipment will be faster than it was when it was new - its unavoidable, due to the 25+++ years of increased knowledge (and developments to tyres, brake friction material, etc).
The trick it to work out what defines a bike (or car) as a historic, and to recognise that you can't totally stop the clock.

Personally, I don't think that a set of adjuster knobs on the rear shocks, or some bits inside the forks that you can't even see, makes a VMX bike any less vintage.
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline mxmaniac

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Re: Evo ultimate class
« Reply #119 on: October 28, 2009, 08:31:54 am »
Try $150 plus $10 each extra class. It cost me $190 to enter 5 classes at Conondale.

Are you David Knight... or Trevor Hendy??? :D Far out thats alot of riding, lucky you.
Maico's, the only way to go.