VR250 vs Can Am MX1

[Husky500evo]

I read a post from Jared recently ,where he wrote that the VR Monty was the first of the '74 production 250s to make over 30hp . While Jared really knows his stuff & I respect what he has to say , I couldn't help but wonder if there had ever been a shootout between the VR & the Can Am MX1 250 . The specs of the MX1 250 say that they produced 33hp @ 8000rpm ( measured at the brochure  ) . I know that horsepower figures are not the most important thing out on the track & the way the power is delivered is more critical . The Montesa from all reports has a nice useable spread of power , but guys that I have talked to that have ridden the Rotax powered bikes say that they are extremely fast & would give most big bores of the day a hurry up . The Can Am apparently didn't handle that well though . I just want to get an idea of how my Can Am TNT 250 , when I eventually get it going, will stack up against Holeshot Buddy's VR ( to the first corner anyway ). I know that Dirt Bike magazine or MXA did a retro shootout on most of the '74 250 mxers a few years ago , but I don't think that the Can Am was represented .   

[cappra]

Let me clarify.  Dirt Bike magazine's test of the VR said that the
VR was the first production 250 to break the 30hp figure on
Webco's dyno.  I have no doubt that the Can Am surpassed that
number at some later date, as did some other makes.  The main point
they were making, was that the VR would pull down low and still make
good topend power.  The Rotax motors were alway's a horsepower monster!

[JC]

Mark, yr right, the C-A wasn't featured in that DB shootout, (neither was the KX which also had a killer motor) but the VR was rated VERY highly, much higher than the Ossa Phantom!

I understand Jared was quoting from Cycle Mag's dyno tests about the VR being the 1st 250 to hit 30HP.
Results & dates for several dyno test (measured independantly on Webco's dyno) are as follows:

May 74  VR  30.43HP max
Oct 74  TNT 27.73HP  "
Jul  75   GP   34.29HP  "
(I don't have any results for MX1 or MX2)

From about 4000rpm to 8000, the TNT curve mirrors the VR but about 2HP less. Not bad for a trail bike! Below 4000, the TNT is about 1Hp better.

My guess is that w a less restrictive pipe on yr TNT it'd easily peak at over 30HP

Makes you want to get it on the track in a hurry doesn't it!

(Note: Jared posted his response while I was typing mine)

Interestingly above 7500rpm the GP is about 4HP stronger; below 6500 they are w'in 1Hp (mostly w'in 0.5Hp actually)of ea other right down to 3000rpm.

[holeshot buddy]

when i finish can am i will
have to have some drags with a mate on my vr cappra

[runutz698]

In this section of the fourm we all know which bike is better there is really no need to discuss it.

[Tahitian_Red]

In this section of the fourm we all know which bike is better there is really no need to discuss it.

The Ossa Phantom??? 

[JC]

That would be nice. Would be even nicer if someone knew its whereabouts & could 'resurrect' it

I looked into fitting one into an Ossa Phantom chassis years ago but its major major work.

Found a dyno test on the MX1 done by Cycle World (11/74):

Max 31.20HP @ 8500 rpm - "highest hp reading of any 250 MX to date"

Thats about 1hp more than VR @ same rpm, but @ 6500rpm VR makes a whopping 3.5HP more!!

[mike1948]

Gotta get me another VR.  Shouldn't have sold the last one, a bargain find less than 1km from home, almost complete.  We do some stupid things at times.

[holeshot buddy]

i know 74 maicos handle good
but i thought the can ams were ok as well
jimmy ellis smoked everyone on a standard chassis wise looking 74 250
with no maicos in site
i know the 75 to 78 gp 250 can ams handle good
but maybe the 74 isnt that bad maybe
interesting topic, i cant compere my can am as its modified too much
still it would be good in maico frame
even a husky frame they handle good as well

[cappra]

In 1974, our sponsored shop rider decided to swap a VR motor into a Maico frame.
Had to change the down tube, motor mounts etc,  In the end it ran good, but did
not turn quite like a Maico.  I alway's thought that the Maico motor was an
intregal part of the Maico handling.  Center of gravity, motor rotation, flywheel
effect or ?   The shop owner's were not too happy either, being a Montesa dealer
and all.  In the end, the motor was taken out of the Maico, put back into a VR
and the Monaico slipped into oblivian.

[JC]

Jared,

You've got a point there. I've long believed that weight distribution (dead & live) plays a major part in how a bike turns, & the std Maico setup has a lot of weight a fair way forward (heavy crank & barrell, longish swingarm etc) which makes them feel heavy but also helps them steer well. But having said that, the 125 Maico (w a much lighter engine) was said to handle better than the bigger bore Maicos.

I've often tho't of trying my V75 engine (w VA top-end) in a Husky GP frame, if for no other reason than they are MUCH lighter frames & have lower centre of gravity. With the VA's beautiful power, that'd be quick!

[OSSA PHANTOM]

 Can-am's have a nasty habit of breaking kick starters, If I had one I'd think about push starting it as can-am parts are rare. Maico,VR, Can-AM, what's the point? Iv'e seen OSSA phantoms with a fouled plug and flat tire beat all three.

[JC]

I'd take any one of the spanish 3 w the MAG Husky & KX250 close behind. Or if I could find an RH....