Author Topic: Era specific or just an error??  (Read 1188 times)

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Offline DJRacing

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Era specific or just an error??
« on: October 06, 2008, 08:20:11 pm »
Once again it has been a boring day at work and the thoughts of our vmx racing drifted in the mind. Like who came up with the idea of the era classes pre70 , pre75, pre78 and so on.
Was it just easier to split them at the half decade mark or was there some thought to the different bikes and how their proformance, style and look was?
I can understand how the half decade eras work and the ease of it but it would be nice to know the whole story behind the eras.

I know that they (the Eras) are set in concrete but has anyone ever thought of different eras? I'm not suggesting or implying or even wanting to change them but for all the eras that I mostly think about which happen to be some of the most exciting times of motocross; pre75, pre78 and pre80 (your evo class). Now to keep most euro bikes together and the Japanese bikes out a pre73 era would work but a pre74 era would be more acceptible for suspension reasons and also for the dominance of the euro bikes and the start of the Japanese movement.
It would allow a more distinct era of the start of the suspension travel wars, a pre77 class. The time from 1975 through to and including 1976 when so many bikes were made that companies were bring new models out every 6 months. By the time of 1977 the the manufacturers had it sorted and it was just refining and improving what they had. The next big evolution of motocross bikes came at the 1981/82 era with linkage suspenion and watercooling, hence the evo class.

So how did the era classes come about?
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Offline Nathan S

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Re: Era specific or just an error??
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2008, 11:00:07 pm »
Apparently we're the only ones with too much time to think, DJ.  :D

Obviously, I'm free to be corrected, but the rough mud-map as I understand it:
1. The Poms started with pre-65 because it was when their industry still had some relevance, and they had lots of bikes with a lot of knowledge sitting idle.
2. The pre-75 thing came about because that was the end of the short-travel era - yeah, there was a very small handful of (relatively) LTR bikes in 74, and quite a few short travel 75+ models, but 1975 was the obvious turning point.
3. Then pre-70 made sense, partly because it was the era where the Euros dominated and partly because it evenly splits the other two classes.
4. After that, pre-80 was established by the Victorians because it was a good idea, and because it suited the next era of VMX racers.
5. Seeing its success, other states followed, but used the USA model where all bikes of a similar, pre-80 type spec are in the class together regardless of age (ie: Evo).
6. Then someone realised that the 75~77 models were all sitting in shed because they were hopelessly outclassed by the 1980+ bikes that dominate Evo, and pre-78 was born.
7. Finally, enough people realised that pre-85 bikes were older than the pre-75 bikes were when they were first recognised as 'vintage' and they were added.
8. Eventually, enough people will realise that 1990 was a fugging long time ago, and we'll have pre-90 racing (remembering that anybody who's child was born in 1990 can probably already legally go drinking with their child...).

Random points that I can't be bothered to structure into anything like a cohesive argument:

*As much as I like the simple definition of Evo, I can't help but wonder if it causes dramas simply because it is defined so differently than the other classes. Compared to the old pre-80 class, Evo certainly cuts into the numbers in the pre-85 class, at least.
The Victorians have gone with the flow and replaced their pre-80 with Evo. Pragmatically, it is obviously the right decision. Idealogically, I think I like the pre-80 class better.

*In a lot of ways, changing pre-78 into pre-77 makes more sense. The 75/76 (and some 74) models are the real 'not yet sorted' LTR bikes, whereas stuff like the 77 YZs and RMs were very competent second-generation-of-LTR bikes. But a class that caters to only 2 years of bikes (and a couple of Maicos and KTM), won't have enough bikes to make a class themselves. It also means that most 77 model bikes will be fed to the Evo lions.

*Does it really matter that the jap bikes are in with the euros in pre-75? With the exception of the 125 class, the jap bikes don't dominate the euros in this era.

Ah, I dunno. I 'spose its one of those tihngs were even if you did come up with a clearly better class structure, its simply too late to implement because people have bought (and sold) bikes based on the current structure.

At the least, this post should get enough people wanting to correct me that we'll get some life into the topic....


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Re: Era specific or just an error??
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2008, 12:38:57 pm »
Aw I dunno, I guess as each year unfolded that was the 'era', simple really just like a world that ran just fine with a telephone & fax.
We now travel in time to recreate the eras with a blunt cutoff, it would make for a rather dull day to have one heat after another for every year of 70's mx development. Still if you could fill the start gate with each year(all capacities in), you could see a decade of mx unfold before you.  :o
Hmmm...idle musings...back to work

Offline asasin

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Re: Era specific or just an error??
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2008, 03:39:46 pm »
Day is done , burbon in hand time to pontificate.I think Kiwi VMX has it about right as the tracks we race on are hardly going to show the suspension differances up . especially in pre 81(75-80) a good 76/77 bike will mix it with a 1980 bike (note I said on our tracks) . Pre 86 gives you all the scope in the world for liquid cooling and single shock and disc frunt.those bikes all fall nicely into that era.Pre 75 is also spot on from what I have seen as all those bikes have various limiting factors, some motor power some suspension etc.Thus in effect i suppose I would suport 1/2 decade racing as it just seems to fit. The next decade pre 90 however has upsidedown and full cartride forks , propper power valves etc another can of worms for the scrutineers I guess.
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Re: Era specific or just an error??
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2008, 10:57:11 pm »
 I like the year cutoffs as they are as they're based on the engineering milestones of our sport.
*The pre 65 era marked the end of the heavyweight four stroke era before the CZ led 2 stroke revolution.
*Pre 70 marked the end of the traditional piston port pre japanese era
*Pre 75 marks the end of the traditional suspension era
*Pre '78 marks the end of the first phase of the suspension evolution.
Of course there exceptions to these cutoff dates but this are the basic milestones. I don't think they need fiddling with as they've worked well for 20 years with little drama. Leave these traditional classes well alone and worry about getting the future classing right.