Author Topic: Spluttering When Rich - What's Actually Happening in There?  (Read 183 times)

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Offline 2T

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Hi all,

Wondering what is actually happening inside the motor (2 stroke) when spluttering under load at higher RPM from too rich jetting?

Is it capable of causing any damage other than fouled plugs?
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:57:31 pm by 2T »

Offline pokey

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Re: Spluttering When Rich - What's Actually Happening in There?
« Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 10:57:44 pm »
Wouldnt it be a great but rather boring world if we could diagnose  a problem with only one symptom and without the problem being in front of us. Even a doctor wont say your leg has been bitten off without taking your BP and Temperature.

Before any attempt at tuning the basics need to be addressed. is the air cleaner clean, is the pipe clean. How about that engine seals and compression? Is the carb float set correctly and is it clean, what about the needle wear and clip? Tested the CDI and coil and is the plug correct, timing okay? is the fuel correctly mixed and the tap and line free flowing? Reeds okay?
When you can answer a confident yes they are all good to all those then its time to think about tuning or your chasing the wrong end of the dog. And just to make it interesting jetting changes with elevation as the air pressure changes, even humidity has an effect.



You have probably seen these charts and they give you a headsup on where to look for carb jetting issues Vs RPM. Remember there is a crossover range  where jets share the job. grab a few jets and a box of spark plugs and your angle grinder as its time for plug chops. Flat out underload pull the clutch and press the kill switch at the same time. Remove the plug and check the polaroid it just gave you of what was happening at that time. When you get close with the jetting you can "chop" the thread off the plug and read the porcelain colouring with more accuracy.
Whats happening in the engine at that time? Have a look and the piston and plug will tell you.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:00:11 pm by pokey »

Offline 2T

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Re: Spluttering When Rich - What's Actually Happening in There?
« Reply #2 on: Today at 12:06:48 am »
I'm not quite sure why you posted the above, pokey. I may not have been clear with my question.

I'll try again in a different form:

If, when attempting to safely fine tune 2 stroke carb jetting (specifically the main jet), using the method of jetting much richer to the point of spluttering, before then gradually changing to leaner jets until suitable jetting is achieved, what activity is happening in the motor to cause the spluttering (assuming all else is functioning correctly)?

Offline John Orchard

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Re: Spluttering When Rich - What's Actually Happening in There?
« Reply #3 on: Today at 08:40:54 am »
The issues that could arise ....

Fouled plug.
Blocked baffles in the exhaust.
Excessive carbon build-up behind rings.
Ring might get jammed in the grooves.
« Last Edit: Today at 08:42:36 am by John Orchard »
Johnny O - Tahition_Red factory rider.

Offline skypig

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Re: Spluttering When Rich - What's Actually Happening in There?
« Reply #4 on: Today at 11:01:26 am »
My guess:

It’s too rich to ignite/burn reliably. Possibly momentarily fouling the plug (bridging the gap with liquid)?
So the spluttering is a stroke where it didn’t light off?
Or potentially the mixture is burning more like a liquid than a gas?

Offline pokey

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Re: Spluttering When Rich - What's Actually Happening in There?
« Reply #5 on: Today at 06:10:34 pm »
Quote
If, when attempting to safely fine tune 2 stroke carb jetting (specifically the main jet), using the method of jetting much richer to the point of spluttering, before then gradually changing to leaner jets until suitable jetting is achieved, what activity is happening in the motor to cause the spluttering (assuming all else is functioning correctly)?

Spluttering is an incomplete burn of the charge and this can occur at any point in the RPM range for various reasons as i had mentioned not just too rich on the main.
If as you state everything else is fine and your sure its a main jet issue the amount of fuel/Air ratio is too fuel rich which has an excessive cooling effect and the charge cannot complete its burn within its duty cycle. Its very similar to a flooded engine or running with the choke on. 3 things in a balance for a fire to burn, Fuel Heat and Oxygen, decrees one(Air) or two items(cooling) and no more fire its a simple as that .. As the boys have stated this results in oily carbons being produced which clog pipes gum ring landings foul plugs and crap performance. I hope this helps.

Offline 2T

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Re: Spluttering When Rich - What's Actually Happening in There?
« Reply #6 on: Today at 07:33:09 pm »
Thanks guys!

Are there any known immediate detrimental effects possible, like extra pressure in the crankcase?

I'm asking these questions as I'm trying to work out why I had gearbox oil forced out the clutch cover gasket and centre crankcase join immediately after I had been testing with overly rich main jet and spluttering (breather tube is not blocked).

Since then, a leak down test has shown no leaks, so it's a bit of a mystery at this stage. Next on the list is checking for cracks in the crankcase that may be opening up after reaching peak operating temperature.

Thanks again.

Offline pokey

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Re: Spluttering When Rich - What's Actually Happening in There?
« Reply #7 on: Today at 08:41:33 pm »
Pressure isnt actually an issue in the bottom end of a 2T engine as the charge isnt pushed its sucked, either by the pressure differential created in the combustion chamber or pipe scavenging. Maybe a whole 7PSI in the bottom end at most so if it holds a 10PSI (never any more or you will blow a gasket or seal) in a test for 10 mins its good to go. As for the gearbox leak my thoughts would be over full or a blocked breather.

Sounds like that engine needs a lot of love whatever it is so back to basics. Pull the clutch cover and clean the old gasket and crap off it and pull the locating pins then hone it flat with a sheet of fine wet and dry on a sheet of window glass so you know its flat. Then a new gasket or yamalube as per the specific factory requirements.