One bike in Pre75/78

[KTM47]

3.  Also note the 125 classes for Post Classic all state "125cc" so it can be agrued that that means 125cc plus or minus 5%.

[JohnnyO]

Almost all 125's stock are 123cc so Kevin you are saying that they have to be bored out a little to race post classic?

5% of 125cc is 6.25cc

I didn't say anything about how big they could be. Your interpretation of the rules as you said above for post classic is that a 125 has to be 125cc so anything either side of that is not eligable by your definition.

You blokes must have some work to do in the shed... how's your RM370 going Kev?

[sleepy]

Almost all 125's stock are 123cc so Kevin you are saying that they have to be bored out a little to race post classic?

5% of 125cc is 6.25cc

I didn't say anything about how big they could be. Your interpretation of the rules as you said above for post classic is that a 125 has to be 125cc so anything either side of that is not eligable by your definition.

You blokes must have some work to do in the shed... how's your RM370 going Kev?

Doctor told me not to work till my elbow is better.

Kevin the engine size rules say only 5% over the is no minus.  Same wording is used for 250 classes as well which would have to exclude thing like PE175's DT175's and IT175 and 200.
Common sence would indicate that even though the wording "up to" has not been added that it is implied or your work as a measurer will be tested.

[KTM47]

This is why the Motocross classes are stated as up to 250cc and 255cc to 450 etc (the tolerance is 2%).  That is for Supercross. Am I the measurer somewhere?

[Ted]

Nothing like being shouted at over the internet, thanks KTM, but I am allowed an opinion, plus an XR75 is far from a big wheel 85. So Momus is all good to go then? Sweet, I'll be there watching it amongst the rest of the 4 strokes.
K

Sorry was I shouting.  I didn't use capitals or bold.

Has anyone picked up on the other thing I said.

While the Classic classes are stated as up to 125 the Post Classic are just 125.

Kevvy, check out the GCR's now. Since you've quite correctly pointed out that Pre 78 125 has no provision for UP TO someone has snuck in there and changed the wording to read UP TO 125. Who would have thought, just in time for the Nats.

[KTM47]

Almost all 125's stock are 123cc so Kevin you are saying that they have to be bored out a little to race post classic?

5% of 125cc is 6.25cc

I didn't say anything about how big they could be. Your interpretation of the rules as you said above for post classic is that a 125 has to be 125cc so anything either side of that is not eligable by your definition.

You blokes must have some work to do in the shed... how's your RM370 going Kev?

Doctor told me not to work till my elbow is better.

Kevin the engine size rules say only 5% over the is no minus.  Same wording is used for 250 classes as well which would have to exclude thing like PE175's DT175's and IT175 and 200.
Common sence would indicate that even though the wording "up to" has not been added that it is implied or your work as a measurer will be tested.

Yes George, you are partly correct the wording of the GCR does say "may not exceed the prescribed capacity for that class by more than 5%.  There is no mention of lower tolerance, however it does say tolerances. So that can indicate a lower and upper tolerance.

Also you do not really understand the role of a measurer.  Their job is to accurately measurer something and give a report to the CofC, who can then decide any penalities.

In my opinion the classes for Classic/Post Classic MX/DT need to be better defined.

1. The names of the classes should be as they were back in the day 125, 250 & 500.
2. Then the capacities for those classes should then be defined.
     a)  125  (up to 125)
     b)  250  (131 to 250)
     c)  500  (263 and over)

That way once each class is defined the simple terms 125, 250 and 500 can be used for everything

I also think Classic Dirt Track needs another class maybe 650 and over twins.  Or maybe 500.

[KTM47]

Nothing like being shouted at over the internet, thanks KTM, but I am allowed an opinion, plus an XR75 is far from a big wheel 85. So Momus is all good to go then? Sweet, I'll be there watching it amongst the rest of the 4 strokes.
K

Sorry was I shouting.  I didn't use capitals or bold.

Has anyone picked up on the other thing I said.

While the Classic classes are stated as up to 125 the Post Classic are just 125.

Kevvy, check out the GCR's now. Since you've quite correctly pointed out that Pre 78 125 has no provision for UP TO someone has snuck in there and changed the wording to read UP TO 125. Who would have thought, just in time for the Nats.

Ted  The 2016 GCRs 13.1 has got Pre 78 as up to 125 (I have a printed copy).  It always did.  What you asked previously was RE the Pre 75 age groups which still only say 125/250/ 263 plus.

This is why I believe the classes should just be called 125, 250 and 500 which another rule just defining what those classes are.  That way they don't have to be defined everytime they are mentioned in the GCRs.

[HeavenVMX]

Almost all 125's stock are 123cc so Kevin you are saying that they have to be bored out a little to race post classic?

5% of 125cc is 6.25cc

I didn't say anything about how big they could be. Your interpretation of the rules as you said above for post classic is that a 125 has to be 125cc so anything either side of that is not eligable by your definition.

You blokes must have some work to do in the shed... how's your RM370 going Kev?

Doctor told me not to work till my elbow is better.

Kevin the engine size rules say only 5% over the is no minus.  Same wording is used for 250 classes as well which would have to exclude thing like PE175's DT175's and IT175 and 200.
Common sence would indicate that even though the wording "up to" has not been added that it is implied or your work as a measurer will be tested.

Yes George, you are partly correct the wording of the GCR does say "may not exceed the prescribed capacity for that class by more than 5%.  There is no mention of lower tolerance, however it does say tolerances. So that can indicate a lower and upper tolerance.

Also you do not really understand the role of a measurer.  Their job is to accurately measurer something and give a report to the CofC, who can then decide any penalities.

In my opinion the classes for Classic/Post Classic MX/DT need to be better defined.

1. The names of the classes should be as they were back in the day 125, 250 & 500.
2. Then the capacities for those classes should then be defined.
     a)  125  (up to 125)
     b)  250  (131 to 250)
     c)  500  (263 and over)

That way once each class is defined the simple terms 125, 250 and 500 can be used for everything

I also think Classic Dirt Track needs another class maybe 650 and over twins.  Or maybe 500.

That is very logical and would be completely clear for all.

Unfortunately Kevin that makes the assumption that the rule makers want the rules to be clear, unambiguous and easily interpreted when in fact history clearly shows that is not the case.

The rules have been altered progressively and often in minor ways over time to become completely unclear, open to interpretation or indeed mute on important details.

When you read the rules and go back over past MOMS you can only come to the conclusion that this has been a consistent direction taken. Is it wrong? Obviously the rule makers do not believe it is wrong.

Take these examples. I would like anyone to define what 'considerate of era' for Pre60 and Pre65 frames means or equally to define what is or is not a replica part or even if replica parts are legal. This is not referring to what we understand the rules to mean it relates to what is actually written in the rules.

If you read the rules as written for Pre75 bikes then all components must be up to and including 1974 models. Now taken as written even the hand grips and tyres must be 1974 models obviously we know that is not practical but the rules are clear or are they?

[KTM47]

This is why I put a rule proposal in to define what was open to change eg

Shocks
Fork internal (exterior to stay the same)
Ignitions
Foot pegs etc etc

Either way I will continue to call the classes what they were,  125, 250 and 500.