Author Topic: Cooper ID Help  (Read 4263 times)

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211kawasaki

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Cooper ID Help
« on: February 03, 2009, 02:37:41 pm »
Hi
Have found a Cooper engine # XU9339 does anyone know if its a MX or enduro model??
Its 600 dollars is it a good deal? if not the MX version and some one is interested happy to pass on the contact, Im only interested in the MX version.

211

Offline BETRIC

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Re: Cooper ID Help
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 04:21:24 pm »
211 I would say it is an Enduro model as one of my Enduro's have XU93318 as the frame number, it would be one of the 1st enduro's Blair imported in 1974 based on the motor number, frame and motor numbers should match, you can ID an Enduro, it should have an steel inner rear guard, and steel plate for the battery box, MX had the fibre glass airbox as part of the inner guard, my MX Coopers have steel inner guards but they were imported into WA 1973, they were an earlier version than what Blair Harly imported, Blair imported 40 MX bikes only and 10 MX bikes were imported into WA by Charly Drake, these were the first Coopers in Australia.   
DELTEK, 72 MINI TRAIL, 73/4 XR75, 77/78 XR75, DG MONOSHOCK FRAME XR75, REDLINE FRAME XR75, PK RACING MONOSHOCK FRAME XR75, JWRP XR FRAME, SL70K1, 81 CR80RB, TY80A/B, YZ80A/B/D, GT50/80A, GTMX80A, 73 GTMX, GT1, COOPER MX, COOPER ENDURO,MX360A,MX250B,YZ125X MX100, 72 XL250, TC100,TL125, TY250C,IT250J

Offline JC

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Re: Cooper ID Help
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2009, 10:29:52 am »
Betric,

Were the early ones brought into WA the ones w the lightweight cro-mo frame or the heavy frames (approx 28lbs) like BH brought into NSW?

Offline BETRIC

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Re: Cooper ID Help
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 04:31:00 pm »
JC
The light weight frames were from the first Coopers, the 4 speed Enduro model, they never came here, my MX frames are basically the same as the later MX frame, the only difference between the frames are that the early frames had bolt on foot peg mounts and solid rear motor mounts, later model had welded foot peg mounts and floating rear motor mount that used the swing arm bolt and modified swing arm, later Enduro model used the same basic frame, motors were the same except for closer 5th gear on the MX and the MX barrel had different porting specs to the Enduro model, my MX bikes came from the factory fitted with the Yamaha GYT DT1 single ring piston, later bikes were fitted with the MOTO ISLO copy pistons of the DT1 but used Yamaha rings and gudgeon pins, I use Yamaha DT1 2 ring pistons in my MX and Enduro bikes but you have to take 4mm off the skirt both sides of the piston and the change the postion of the pins in the ring lands area so the ring gaps miss the ports, all Coopers are hand ported and radical in the port timing, DT1 head gaskets are used but base gaskets from the DT1 don't fit, must use MOTO ISLO base gaskets, early bike had cush drive rear wheel hubs later built model had solid rear wheel hubs (stronger).   
DELTEK, 72 MINI TRAIL, 73/4 XR75, 77/78 XR75, DG MONOSHOCK FRAME XR75, REDLINE FRAME XR75, PK RACING MONOSHOCK FRAME XR75, JWRP XR FRAME, SL70K1, 81 CR80RB, TY80A/B, YZ80A/B/D, GT50/80A, GTMX80A, 73 GTMX, GT1, COOPER MX, COOPER ENDURO,MX360A,MX250B,YZ125X MX100, 72 XL250, TC100,TL125, TY250C,IT250J

Offline JC

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Re: Cooper ID Help
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2009, 05:14:46 pm »
Are you sure about the diff in 5th gear?

I was fairly sure the early ones Blair H brought in ran same ratios (MX & enduro) until Blair asked for wider ratios for enduros on later shipments. Somewhere I think I still have a copy of those wider ratios.

Offline BETRIC

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Re: Cooper ID Help
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2009, 08:26:00 pm »
JC
Looking at my Cooper parts manuals the gear ratios list the same except 5th gear, Blair changed the boxes because they were breaking in the early shippments,( HEAT TREATMENT PROBLEM) .
DELTEK, 72 MINI TRAIL, 73/4 XR75, 77/78 XR75, DG MONOSHOCK FRAME XR75, REDLINE FRAME XR75, PK RACING MONOSHOCK FRAME XR75, JWRP XR FRAME, SL70K1, 81 CR80RB, TY80A/B, YZ80A/B/D, GT50/80A, GTMX80A, 73 GTMX, GT1, COOPER MX, COOPER ENDURO,MX360A,MX250B,YZ125X MX100, 72 XL250, TC100,TL125, TY250C,IT250J

Offline JC

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Re: Cooper ID Help
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2009, 03:18:23 pm »
Betric,

After a bit of research, as far as I can tell there must have been three 5sp g'boxes.  The early specs I've seen were  2.34, 1.75,  1.38,  1.14, 1.00 for 1st thro to 5th.  That appears to be the same ratios as the MX which are really quite close. It was one of the major limitations of the early ones.

In an Owners Report in ADB #2 Phil Eldridge says his was an early pre-wide-ratio version & complains about a top speed of 50mph w the engine screaming & vibrating.

Then there's the version you mention - same as MX except for top gear. My manual (shop manual) doesn't list any ratio's.

Then there's the wide ratio version Blair got them to develop. Many yrs ago he gave me the teeth nos of ea gear & the ratios work out to 3.25, 2.26, 1.63, 1.34 & 1.0

Can you tell me the Enduro ratios listed in yr parts manual (or even just the no of teeth for 5th gear)

Offline BETRIC

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Re: Cooper ID Help
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2009, 07:49:14 pm »
JC
I had a look at the parts books, the parts book for the early MX list 5th gear as 18 teeth, my other parts book came from Blair, it list both MX and Enduro 5th gear as 15 teeth, all other gears are listed with the same amount of teeth in both parts books. 
DELTEK, 72 MINI TRAIL, 73/4 XR75, 77/78 XR75, DG MONOSHOCK FRAME XR75, REDLINE FRAME XR75, PK RACING MONOSHOCK FRAME XR75, JWRP XR FRAME, SL70K1, 81 CR80RB, TY80A/B, YZ80A/B/D, GT50/80A, GTMX80A, 73 GTMX, GT1, COOPER MX, COOPER ENDURO,MX360A,MX250B,YZ125X MX100, 72 XL250, TC100,TL125, TY250C,IT250J

211kawasaki

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Re: Cooper ID Help
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2009, 06:07:53 pm »
No doubt about you guys, I have had a PM from someone I will pass on the contact to so the bike isnt lost to the world.

Thanks for the help

Dave

211kawasaki

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Re: Cooper ID Help
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2009, 10:04:02 pm »
had to buy it myself, it owes me $600 if anyone interested, nice and complete but in bits

neilc

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Re: Cooper ID Help
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2009, 07:27:57 pm »
Betric,  you seem to be pretty knowledgeable on the Cooper.  I have one which I bought new from Blair and raced Enduros.  I'm now restoring it and have a couple of things I need info on.  I have been in contact with Dave Onley but his contact details seem to be off  (or his ignoring me  ;D ) at present.

I've stripped the engine and it looks fine.  In fact it hasn't been started since I sent it to Blair to have the 'wide ratio' gears installed back in about '76/77.

I have just got some new fork seals that fit and are ARI code ARI.012 if you'd like to know.

I'm after the following:

1/ a parts drawing of the forks so I can get them back together easily?  Would you or one of the others have a diagram? 

2/ Also if any one knows if the rear wheel has an offset hub to rim? for respoking.

3/ I'm after a mx pipe, even thought it was an Enduro.  I'm going to see how it goes as a road racer; I race an RS125 with the PCRA.

4/ I seem to have lost the rear shocks (I think) could you give me a shock length, mount bolt center to mount bolt center?

Thanks in advance.

Hope someone can help?

Offline asasin

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Re: Cooper ID Help
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2009, 03:19:37 pm »
Hi , I have 4 coopers 2 trail and 2 mx The forks are no different to anything else except some have a air bleed off in the top caps(kinda like a control valve) leave them in they seem to work. The shocks are 330 eye to eye on my MX model. Dave is really the man to help with a diagrahm I have a parts book and could post you a photocopy if needed. I have set up my new rim in the bike to run centre. It looks to be centre of the hub but it is always best to do it in place if possible that way you know it is in the middle of the bike.
 Sorry cant help with a pipe I only have a spare enduro one.I made up a pipe from various pipes I had for the one I motocross.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 03:23:58 pm by asasin »
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