Author Topic: Making thinner head gaskets  (Read 5390 times)

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Offline Lozza

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Re: Making thinner head gaskets
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2008, 03:24:49 pm »
I looked in the definitive tome 'Machinery's Handbook' today and it does in fact say to quench after heating.Heat was nowhere near red just light to medium blue.I may perform an experiment with 2 strips of copper sheet, 1 quenched and 1 air cooled.Put in vice and count the number of bends until fracture. ???
Jesus only loves two strokes

Offline pmc57

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Re: Making thinner head gaskets
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2008, 07:15:20 pm »
I think you're right Lozza, I'm a fitter and turner by trade and I remember when I was an apprentice, and doing a lot of mainteince fitting, I was always told that when you wanted to reuse a copper washer, you heated it to dull red and quenched it in water to anneal (soften) it so it can be used again.
Work hardening is a broad term used to express the change of character a material exhibites after being used, with copper being so soft, a few applications of compression and heat are enough to work harden it and change its charictistics.
The charasticts of copper in a head gasket application is to provide minimal sqeeze or loss of dimension and yet make a good seal. If it's used too many times, you should also make sure it has not deformed and formed ridges or lips that could cause leaks or has compressed below standard thickness. For example, check out the copper washers under the M10 socket head bolts that hold nearly all Japanese forks together, they nearly always deform to the extent that they're sometimes difficult to get out of the slider. I always file them flat and sometimes reduce the OD so they can once again fit in the counter-bore then re-anneal before refitting.
Like with everything where you're using / rebuilding old machinery, best result are achieved is in the fitting detail adopted in reassembly.
Peter

Offline Lozza

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Re: Making thinner head gaskets
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2008, 07:47:29 am »
After some more reaserch I found this from a bonsai website that was cut and pasted to which I promptly cut and pasted

The copper will maintain it's soft crystal structure after annealing at any realistic cooling rate (from very slow like letting fire die down to fast like throwing it in a bucket of water). Generally, I would suggest water cooling to prevent excessive oxidation of the surface. Steel (iron + carbon) on the other hand will change it's properties dramatically upon rapid cooling . However, it is possible to cool copper fast enough to make it into a brittle material. This normally involves cooling rates of greater than 10 million degrees C per second which can only be obtained by spraying a very thin film on to a very cold surface (this equipment is very expensive

So it can be annealed either way and the water is merely to prevent oxidisation. I still learn everyday ;D
Jesus only loves two strokes

Doc

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Re: Making thinner head gaskets
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2008, 05:04:37 pm »
thanks Lozza, I never why I dunked them I just did..part of the process I was explained :D I'll just have to rememeber not to cool it at rates greater than 10 million degrees C per second :o brrrr!!! phark I never knew it could get that cold but then I suppose it would be an infinate scale like heat and speed..terminal velocity..where does it stop? does it stop at all? is it as relevant to money as they say? :P :D yes because when 1 runs out of money so does the speed and heat :D babbling as usual...
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 05:08:56 pm by Doc »

Offline LWC82PE

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Re: Making thinner head gaskets
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2008, 07:48:11 pm »
im the same as a few other guys. i have always heated copper head gaskets and then quenched them and never had an issue, especially when combining with the blue hylomer gasket sealant, but my preference is to use a new gasket when ever possible
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