Author Topic: Pre ignition or detonation?  (Read 6473 times)

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Offline Noel

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Re: Pre ignition or detonation?
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2015, 07:41:20 pm »
thats possible,
but the first thing I did before pulling the motor down was give the push rods a wiggle, as my first thought when bike stopped  was a bent or broken valve , both push rods had clearance,
the fuel is also a possiblity was bought fresh on the way to the track, but I also had issues with another bike( this time a two stroke) being difficult to start over the week end although that bike ran fine once started, possible bad batch?

Offline pokey

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Re: Pre ignition or detonation?
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2015, 07:56:51 pm »
Maybe a little of lots of things Noel. octane may well have been off in that batch. Weak valve spring? Could be any number of things and the only way to know for sure is inspect,measure, compare and calibrate.

Offline mick25

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Re: Pre ignition or detonation?
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2015, 07:58:17 pm »
Would it be a heat range on the plug ??? to add to other causes combined
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 08:10:50 pm by mick25 »

Offline Mick D

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Re: Pre ignition or detonation?
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2015, 10:37:28 pm »
Yes, I agree with you both,
Every bit of negativity adds up to achieve tipping point, 
 
A lot of big bore four stroke AIR COOLED 500s run way too hot and don't take much to reach the tipping edge of safe temperature. Excessive temperature rise is a domino effect, especially when under duress. Racing. Load.
Part of a tune is to select coolest plug on the day that will still match the running performance of the hot plug choice one next to it.

A tappet clearance when cold does not mean an exhaust tappet clearance when normal running temperature
 has been exceeded, particularly with lower end metallurgy.
There is more than one consideration to setup an exhaust valve so its head runs cool.

A couple of things; the head of an exhaust valve should sit proud of the seat, not sunk into its seat. The guide wear should be within spec, so when it snaps shut it doesn't leak because it vibrates/shudders on close.
The set up is more critical for AIR COOLED already running too hot engines.

There would be a lot you could do with the shell of these engines with components made from modern materials.
I doubt the selection or consistency of Indian metallurgy and their desired rates of thermal expansion in valve stems for example would meet the harsher upper end of race demands. Etc. Etc Etc

Most of the population would not be aware of how much the fuel quality varies in this country. It varies a lot.
Short story, BP98,,, it was the most consistent value for money,when I was a part of the industry.
I hope it still is. Best bet, BP100 if you can get it and justify its expense.
The higher the state of tune, the greater the demand for fuel consistency.

Fuel inconsistency is more detrimental and a much bigger issue in air cooled carburetored four stroke engines than it is to modern liquid cooled engines that are computer controlled and ever increasingly designed to be self compensating systems.


 

 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 12:40:12 am by Mick D »
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline vandy010

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Re: Pre ignition or detonation?
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2015, 11:34:07 am »
Enfield 500 Bullet.
the Indian version? or the origional British version?
its been a while but a couple of years ago i did a fair bit of reading up on the 500 Bullets and found most folk were ditching the stock pistons and going to the JP pistons...
that and a mod to the oil flow to the top end...
chase up the Enfield Forum online... heaps of reading to be found there
"flat bickie"

Offline matcho mick

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Re: Pre ignition or detonation?
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2015, 03:49:52 pm »
JP pistons are ok for the roadies, wouldn't stick one in a race engine,plenty of alternatives but you  have to play around a bit,Hitchcocks  got good stuff i'd imagine too,Noel what colour did the back of exhaust valve head have?,grey white?,got the leanburn model didja ;), :P
work,the curse of the racing class!!
if a hammer dosn't fix it,you have a electrical problem!!

Offline TT5 Matt

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Re: Pre ignition or detonation?
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2015, 07:56:19 pm »
a decent oil cooler can help pull alot of heat from a bombed out thumper,had good results from a xs1100 yam o/ciooler I found out the rubbish dump on a tt500 and a stock xr600 where before itd spit on  the fins of the head and itd boil the spit but not after fitting the oil cooler