Author Topic: name this one  (Read 7565 times)

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L.Ron.Pursang

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Re: name this one
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2009, 07:14:43 am »
Fair enough Marc but my point is that he developed the suspension that KTM called such a radical innovation 16 years earlier on the ATK. I own an ATK and admit the countershaft rear brake is a wank but they're a much better bike than you give them credit for. I agree the Full Floater was a pretty good step forward and did make all of the other linkaged suspensions look a tad underdone at the time. Kawasakis similar Uni Trak wasn't bad either.
Sorry for wandering off on a thread tangent. That Honda at the beginning of the thread may indeed be one of Kelvin Franks experiments. Can somebody check with him? He's home with some crook knees from being run over by a hit run driver.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 11:58:56 am by firko »

Offline vmxken

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Re: name this one
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2009, 07:53:54 am »
There should be an article on a Franks Honda 125 in Issue 39 of VMX and I've been liaising with Kelvin on and off the last few months.  I'll ask him about this one as well.  He has already mentioned that the first couple of Franks Hondas he did utilised the majority of the existing Honda frame while later versions had a whole new frame.

However, of all the pics I've seen of his versions, none of the swingarms look like the one in the photo at the start of this thread.

Ken


Offline Nathan S

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Re: name this one
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2009, 08:21:38 am »
Good call Firko - Horst Leitner will be remembered as one of the few great innovators of the late 20th century.

Fans of Douglas Adams (Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Dirk Gently) will probably remember his cat door allegory. The simple version is that we can all look at a cat door and say "Yep, that's really simple and really obvious" - but its only obvious after someone else has invented it. That 'someone' must actually possess an exceptional brain, even if its easy for Joe Average to dismiss their inventions as obvious.

Virtually every step foward in the world of dirt bikes is the same.
I mean, how easy is it to sit back and look at our pre-75 bikes and wonder why the hell it took so many years for someone to 'invent' long travel suspensions?
Or wonder why we finally adopted disc brakes, decades after cars had proven that they were a zillion times better?

Etc.

Stuff like the old Suzuki Full Floater were obviously big steps foward, but - like the Tilkeins monoshock - weren't completely new, and used existing ideas adapted from elsewhere and modified/added to them.
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline Lozza

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Re: name this one
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2009, 11:24:22 am »
Suzuki just straight out nicked the floater from Nico Bakker and Bimota(Bimota made frame for the TR500) who had rocker arm  rear suspension, in about 76 ;D Yamaha seemed to have copied that big bulb on the end of the mono shock also ???
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Offline Marc.com

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Re: name this one
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2009, 06:50:11 pm »
I own an ATK and admit the countershaft rear brake is a wank but they're a much better bike than you give them credit for.

Hey Firko don't get me wrong I have owned one, also I am fan, looking for 604 at the moment. As I mentioned I think their take on the single sided shock and frame was really something, and you got the best parts, suspension, hubs etc into the deal. Like getting a KTM 520 5 years early  ;D
formerly Marc.com

Offline JC

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Re: name this one
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2009, 08:49:13 am »
Back to the original post - it looks all 73-74 honda to me too (except for obvious swingarm mods). A couple of things make me wonder if its actually based on modified MT frame w all excess brackets removed. The backbone extends further down towards swingarm pivot (like MT frame) to allow room for top of shocks & top mounts.  Rear frame/mudguard loop is CR style but looks longer than std CR so could be cut-down MT loop. Most likely its modified CR frame tho.

I actually did a very similar mod to my brothers CR125 in 75, & built an up-pipe to go w it. It was a relatively straight forward mod on the std CR125 frame & it worked quite well. But I wondered if the frame would have cracked & kept cracking if we kept it that way since the original frame wasn't built to take forces in those directions. No doubt, swingarm was more rigid (a boost for an Elsie) but it was heavier & w the weight up hi (the bane of that whole system) it was no better than other LTR mods we'd tried, so we reverted back to lay-down shocks & lived happily ever after.

Offline Marc.com

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Re: name this one
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2009, 05:48:30 am »
But I wondered if the frame would have cracked & kept cracking if we kept it that way since the original frame wasn't built to take forces in those directions.

I think when you consider how half assed welded, thrown together motorcycle chassis were in the day then actually your margin for them not cracking must be pretty high, with the KSI replica I decided to tackle this by placing the shocks very close together and making the top mount a double shear, that way you spread the load across as much of the frame as possible, guess we will see.
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Offline JC

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Re: name this one
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2009, 04:27:39 pm »
Marc,

I wasn't referring to yr 'KSI'-XL. The XL-S frame is much more robust than a flimsy 73 CR125 frame.

Offline Noel

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Re: name this one
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2009, 06:31:50 pm »
Hi,
Most of that bike seem to be a M1 or M2 CR250 ,'75 '76
 M2's had exhaust out left hand side of barrel and an up pipe,
and a lower engine cradle.
interesting anyway
cheers
Noel
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 06:37:33 pm by Noel »

Offline JohnnyO

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Re: name this one
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2009, 09:34:22 pm »
Noel an M1/M2 had moved forward top shock mounts, this bike has the mounts the same as the M and they all had a lower engine cradle.

Offline Noel

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Re: name this one
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2009, 07:37:40 pm »
You could be right,I'm not positive
the top mounts were moved a bit but I thought most of the movement was along the swing arm,
the M1 and 2 had the lower engine cradle, lowered and the engine moved forward as well, was what
I was trying to say
cheers
Noel