Re chrome/nickel plate sidecar chassis?

[270YAM]

I have an old EML frame with lite surface rust in some places, I'd like to have it re plated somehow, but unsure what plating process, or if it is possible to do without the strength of the frame being compromised.
Any suggestions?

[firko]

Have you tried to polish what you've got first? My recently restored Cheney's frame was in pretty poor condition with surface rust and that greenish flim that seems to grow on neglected nickel. Replating was out of my budget and I had my concerns about the sulpheric acid dipping process to remove the old nickels effect on the Reynolds tubing. I'd seen the results on a friends Cheney not turning out as he'd expected so didn't want to wreck the rare frame.

Here's what I did. I fitted a series of stainless steel rotary wire brushes in my electric drill and proceeded the tedious task of brushing the whole frame/swingarm from front to back to try and remove all of the surface corrosion. To get into difficult corners I used smaller brushes in my Dremel using the flexi extention to make sure that all of the corrosion was gone. Then once I was happy I set about polishing the frame using a metal polishing kit suitable for use in an electric drill chuck purchased from Bunnings (around $30). The kit comprises of a couple of felt buffing pads, a rag finishing buffer and two different grades of buffing 'soap'. Using the felt buff and the slightly more abrasive grey soap, I repeated the process I'd used with the wire brushes until I was happy with the finish. It's not a quicky process, it took me around three days on and off until I was happy with the result. I then proceeded to polish the frame using Simichrome polish applied with a foam gizmo which also fits in a drill called the 'Power Cone', made by either Mothers or Meguiars (they both make similar products) and finish polished it with a terry cloth.. After about two hours or as long as it takes to use a whole tube of Simichrome, the frame was absolutely glistening. But...I wasn't finished. As a final touch I went over the frame with Maserati brand 'Brite Shine'...that cotton wool like stuff that comes in a can, and a terry cloth, ending up with a shiny, gleaming pile of Cheney where a previous greenish dull old frame had been.

It all sounds a bit anally retentive, taking a week to polish a frame but the hard work was well worth it. While I know where the flaws are in the frame, most folks who saw the bike at CD7 didn't notice them and thought I'd had it re nickeled. At around $100 all up for materials it's a damn site cheaper than re plating and you can still have confidence in the integral strength of the frame.

Considering my Cheney started as a scrap yard find that had been saved from the crusher by a fluke of fate, I think the effort to get her looking pretty again was well worth it. You will too !

[vmx42]

Hey Firko,
After all your hard work would it be possible to clear coat over the polished tube? Would that ensure that the 'shine' would last as long as possible?
Just an idea.
VMX42

[Freakshow]

So it was nickel plated the first time ?  then there should be no reason it cant be done again assuming the plater knows how to hang it and where the drain holes are surely.  IF it was chromed before i cant see how the excuse it will corrode from the inside stands as it would have done it the first time it was done..........

[270YAM]

Thanks firko,
I haven't yet got the bike in my possession, it's still down south and I'm in qld. I will definitely be giving it a good going over when I get it, hopefully it comes up as good as yours did.

Freaky,
I don't know exactly what the original plating on the frame is, Walter will be able to answer this one.

[LWC82PE]

Nickel/chrome is the same process

Chrome plating consists of

-Copper, then nickel then chrome

Nickel platting consists of

-Copper then Nickel (they dont put the chrome on top of the nickel)

Well thats how it should be done but you will find the cheap platers will try and cut corners and leave out the copper.

[GMC]

There are a few issues to deal with when replating

Standard electroplating causes Hydrogen embrittlement.
The horror stories you hear about plated stuff braking is because it hasn’t been treated post plating. I forget what temperature it needs to be done at but it’s low enough not to damage the plating and it needs to be cooked for about 8 hrs and done straight after plating, as in the same day, so if going this way you will need to have the Platers and Heat Treaters in sync.

Electroless plating doesn’t have this problem but you will find the prices from places that do this will look similar to their telephone numbers.

Standard electroplating won’t get into the nooks and cranny’s that well. Up in between the head stem gussets for example, whereas Electroless plating will.

Stripping works in a similar way. In order to strip the old plating from the nooks and cranny’s the easy to reach parts will have been stripped too much causing pitting. Polishing the pitting out will reduce the thickness of the tubes.

The quality of the job comes down to the amount of polishing done before plating. Much the same as painting, it’s the preparation that makes it look good as the plating is very thin and won’t fill any pit marks

Firko is right about polishing it back to a shine, even though the plating will be thin it can be brought back to life but will need a protective coating to keep it looking right. Polish can do this, as well as CRC etc.
I wouldn’t recommend the wire brush though, unless you had to fight through some rust, I would stick with the polishing mops.

I have wondered about clear coating as well, it will have a different shine but will be more maintenance free

[firko]

wouldn’t recommend the wire brush though, unless you had to fight through some rust, I would stick with the polishing mops.

Geoff I tried to polish it without resorting to using the wire brush but was going backwards until I saw a post on the Swapmeet where a guy was selling stainless steel rotary brushes that he swore didn't damage plating, i.e. scratches. He'd apparently he'd been in the polishing supply business for 30 odd years and seemed to know his shit. He gave me a quick lesson in 'Polishing Nickel 101' and after following his directions, it turned out as I described. It mightn't sound right and you'd think that staino wire would scratch the surface but it didn't. Don't forget, I wasn't prepping it for replating which your directions seem to allude to.

Standard electroplating causes Hydrogen embrittlement.
The horror stories you hear about plated stuff braking is because it hasn’t been treated post plating.

I saw the results of  frames not being heat treated post plating at Dargle a few years ago and at a Ravo Nats during the same era. The Dargle situation saw Tommy Thompsons freshly chromed Bultaco Mk7 Pursang break in two at its first meeting after plating. Tommy was a hard rider and giving the Bully a hand full of stick when without warning it started to stretch at an alarming rate until the engine cases dug into the ground. He unbelievably managed to finish the race but the Bully frame was a writeoff. The other situation saw one of Kell Amberntsons Monark replicas do the exact same thing as Tommys Pursang. Those frames are pretty awful in the welding department (Edgar Phipps has one up here) but this one broke well away from any welded joint from memory (I may stand corrected on that.

Jonesy had the 1964 era nickel removed from his Cheney Matchless frame to enable it to be re done but the plater refused to do it after stripping the original nickel and noting that the Reynolds 531 hadn't liked the acid process involved in the plating removal. He told Alan he'd only do it if Al signed a waiver absolving the plater from any litigation if the frame broke in competition. Alan decided to abandon the plan to renickel and settled on painting it in twin pack poly instead. He's also decided not to race the bike in MX and limit it to dirt track as he'd never feel comfortable on the bike over bumps ever again.
 
I've tried to post photos of Tommys Bully and before and after shots of my Cheney but my server, Village Photos seems to be down. I've been getting error messages since early this morning. Anyone else having a problem?

[Freakshow]

I still dont get it, if it was cleaned and prepped by acid wash the first time, why cant it be stripped then layed on again, so long as the acid wasnt sititng in the tubes then it would be as it was the day they did the process in the first place ?

did these 2 guys that actually broke the frames, plate what was a painted frame orignally and where they MILD steel ? or where they nickelled, then stripped then nickelled again but wherent clear drain holes and the acid sat in the internal tubes ?

if its been nickel plated stripped surely the only pits would be areas where rust started ? given i assume most frames were Chro mo they should be strong steel still no rust pots and not need a polish, why would youneed a mirror finish ?

Do they have a chrome look powder coat colour yet ? id liek to do my chrom nickel plates again and oftern wondered as i dont need a mirror finish if they have a chrome finish in powder coat as they have it in pain cans ? that might be a neutral ground......... to the unknown

[GMC]

Don't forget, I wasn't prepping it for replating which your directions seem to allude to.

No I was just concerned the wire might rip off the nickel, I suppose if the wires were soft and not spinning too fast it would be okay.

I still dont get it,

Freaky, they don't acid wash for the first plating, they just polish and then plate.
The acid is to eat off the old nickel.
No matter how good the steel is, when it's left in the tub for long enough to eat into the thick parts of the Nickel then it also eats into the steel where the Nickel was thin.

[jimg1au]

i have a chromed speedway frame i need rechromed as it is flaking off and rusty (living near the sea) the chromer said he can redo the chrome for me and if i dont want it a polished finish it will be chep just a dull chrome finish.
what other options is there as the chrome wont come off with sand blasting and the paint will be lumpy wher the bits of chrome still are.
jim

[270YAM]

I wouldn't recommend sand blasting it, the surface could work harden, causing the frame to go brittle and snap.

[Freakshow]

Freaky, they don't acid wash for the first plating, they just polish and then plate.
The acid is to eat off the old nickel.
No matter how good the steel is, when it's left in the tub for long enough to eat into the thick parts of the Nickel then it also eats into the steel where the Nickel was thin.

So the issue is the removing NOt the plating itself ? so are you saying that if you CAN remove all the old chrome without having to strip it in an acid bath, and it was just going through a copper and nickel tank then it would be ok ? there is not a "eating away issue " then ?