OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: DJRacing on July 26, 2009, 06:19:34 pm
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I got these photos sent to me.
???
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f65/djracingyz/BILD0132.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f65/djracingyz/BILD0131.jpg)
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DJ, I really like that. Do you have any of the detail of the componentry or is it a highly modified version of a standard bike?
Question to all. When this type of bike is put together, does it loose it's long term appeal (and value) because I'd really enjoy putting together something like this but am always concerned about throwing heaps of money into something that is not an original item?
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This and the YZ look like European bikes where they convert linkage bikes to twin shock.
As much as I love the engineering work involved I can't see the gain, I supose they would have better forks and brakes than say an RM N or T but there is no class here to race them.
As for value, a lot of work and no doubt expense to create something that will have no value in it's "originality" in years to come.
I once converted a series II Land Rover to coil spring suspension, Chev V8 with auto and disc brakes.
It worked a treat but I would never regain the time and money I put into it.
Brent
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I agree with your thoughts Brent about it's long term value.
I also now see the engineered aspect of this bike and yes it must be a converted linkage to a twin shock format.
Note the rear upper engine mount of the motor, it's just got a bolt through the motor casings, no frame for it to locate. Wonder how it goes for stability?
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i think these are from Holland. They have a dutch twinshock class over there and anything goes. They even but twin shocks on bikes like CR500 & KX500 ::)
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I wonder if the KX in the background is feeling nervous about its upcoming operation. ;D
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Looks like a 82/83 RM125 with a PE175 engine fitted. Or at least the top end might be. From my memory, the PE was the only (late model) that has the rubber blocks in the head/barrel.
Take away the Paint, Powdercoat, Polish & Anodising, and Swing arm aside, the engineering is pretty ordinary. Where has the top engine mount gone? Would be interesting to see how the top shock mount has been done.
Sorry, but in my mind it's a waste of time & money and a F@#K'n disgrace that someone would do that to a bike.
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Bahnsy,
It looks like they have made up a rear motor mount that locates on the swingarm pivot [like the '78 Honda CRs].
VMX42
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point here being this bike has obviously been built to someone's ideals. The bike itself appears to have built from misc parts and even if it was a complete thing before it's up to the owner what is an acceptable mod and what isn't. Really does look very nicely done and for the life of me I can't see there being too many shortcuts in the fabrication of the bike. As I've always said, anyone can go out with a wad of money, buy all the NOS parts they like and put a bike together but at the end of the day it's not a reflection of the owner..the above bike is and I reckon it's pretty well done. Not everyone thinks of resale value when building projects..I know sure don't, I do for the enjoyment it brings ;)
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I agree, Chris. The resale value to me would be bugger-all, but I bet the owner had a ball building it, riding it and fussing over it. That's why you play with ancient bikes. For that matter, I'd take it and put more PE parts on it ;D
Resale value is a bizarre thing to think about, in regard to almost any old bike (ok, except for a Maico 490)
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Because I've spruiked my distaste for these bikes on the 'Not Monoshocked' thread, VMX42 has kindly invited me over to vent my spleen here as well. Seeing that the engineering side seems to be the focus here I'll also play the 'Snidely Whiplash' villain part and ask the question...What forking engineering?
The swingarms appear to be poorly designed and made, cut and welded at the shock mounting point with no obvious gusseting. Any other "engineering" merely consists of welding a pair of top mounting points and..Ta Da...you've got one Frankenbike. No great engineering mountains climbed here, in fact it's "deengineering" at it's worst.
I don't have any like for the way these guys have manipulated the Twin Shock concept to suit their ideals but that's the fault of the twin shock organisers not nipping it in the bud when the first CR480 twin shock showed up a few years ago. If they'd have let the Yamaha monoshock into the class at the time and disallowed mechanical components from later eras, the Euro twinshock class would be in better shape.
Lastly I dislike these bikes being associated with the VMX movement. VMX or Vintage motocross exists for us to celebrate and replicate distinct eras of off road history. These bikes have no historical precedent and therefore aren't representative of what VMX is about IMHO........There, I feel better that I've got that off my chest. I'll go and find another puppy to pat. ;D
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yeah i think they kinda dont look right and i wouldnt do it but i guess the owner likes it and is happy with it. Not everyone does a bike up to sell or make money and they dont give a stuff how much its worth in the end. Its a bit like a Bantam, you can pay big bucks to restore one, just as much as it would cost another bike but its only going to be worth maybe $2000 to sell it after and you wont get your money back on it but the owners who restore them do not really care and are not in it to make money, they are in it for the enjoyment/pleasure aspect of building/restoring a bike to their tastes and what they like.
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I still like it and I like the guys vision for building something different. Jeez you're all talking as though he cut up an RH250 or something 'sacred', I'm talking as though he created something unique from something ordinary. The owner did a nice job and may 'never' have even planned on racing this bike so what's the problem? :-\
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The 'problem' in my eyes has nothing to do with chopping up an old bike. I couldn't care less about collectability or investment value. My problem is that these bikes are raced in a class that was never intended for them, simple as that. They're rule fudgers and should never be confused with vintage race bikes.
And on a purely visual thing ... those swingarms are crap. My 'mate' Karl 'Novation'Landrus would spew looking at them.
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IF it was never raced would it still be so upsetting to look at ??? I reckon it's eye candy regardless whether it bends or breaks the rules, a nice bike IS a nice bike is a nice bike ;)
edit, guess i should have read the yammy thread first and saved my breath :P
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It might just be that the guys in Holland made up their own rules, to suit themselves, without consultation with those who seem to think they know better. And maybe, just maybe, they are having fun with their bikes and don't care what people on the other side of the world think. Well good for them.
If they are out there on old bikes and having fun then good luck to them, if that offends you then it says more about you than them.
And maybe, just maybe, a story in an old Dutch motorcycle magazine will pop-up to show that they have been doing this for 30 years, wouldn't that put the wind up the purists. Historic precedence [and yes I know it is very unlikely, but you never know???].
I never thought that saying I liked something, or that it was good that somebody was enjoying themselves with old dirt bikes would cause such a S%$T Storm. Pathetic really
VMX42
P.S. I think the swingarms look fine [seen much worse], but the tanks are works of art and the bikes are great!!!
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You know...I agree fully with any mans right to do whatever he wants with his bike. It's a big world and there's room for all sorts of philosophies in motorcycle sport. The point I've made from the beginning here is that these bikes were built to take advantage of inadequate wording in in the twinshock rules. The guys in Holland (or is it Belgium, you've got me confused) are obviously taking advantage of these loopholes and I'm merely offering my opinion on that. These bikes have caused a lot of heated debate in Euro twin shock circles as well so my criticisms aren't a solo effort. The last time these type of bikes were featured on the forum there was, to quote Lou from Little Britain "a right kerfuffle". I seem to remember it going for a number of pages with far harsher criticism than what I've offered up.
What's more important than some bloke in Europe modifying dirt bikes is the right to have an opinion on an open forum. I've made my opinion purely on what I think of the bike, as have you Jeff. We have different opinions on it....so why is the sky falling in? Every time someone offers up something out of left field you can expect differing opinions, that's the beauty of an open society. I'm not saying my opinion is the final say on this, It's merely what I think and nothing more.
Whatever happened to good open debate without it becoming personal?
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What tank is on the bike? I like it.
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HI Firko,
I'll have one last go… [gotta love a glutton for punishment, eh?]
I have no problem with your opinions [and I sincerly support your right to voice them] but you strongly allege that these guys are taking advantage of the inadequate Twin Shock rules. What if they are quite happy with their rules and feel that nobody is taking advantage of anything.
I know the Poms don't like the situation, but that doesn't mean the Dutch agree with them and as it is their right to formulate their own rules and inforce them as they see fit.
Yes, with our Aussie RACE rules your point would be valid [unless they entered Pre 85 where they would be completely legal], but what you won't [can't] acknowledge is that the Dutch might not share your views and have a different spin on what is appropriate in THEIR form of twin shock racing.
Perhaps if we can find a Dutchman he can put us all straight…
VMX 42
P.S. is the puppy worn out from over patting yet?
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The Dutch seem to be getting along fine with their rules and I guess that's their perogative. It's that free society thing again. I certainly acknowledge that they probably (no certainly) disagree with me. That's my point about debate. I'm just one man offering an opinion, nothing more. In the end it's those crazy clog wogs that have to deal with what they've created not me. Perhaps my view is tainted by what I've read in the British press and forums regarding the Dutch bikes. I suppose as long as this type of thing stayed in Holland it'd be hunky dory but there's already been a sniff of this kind of bike here with a couple of twin shock Honda 450 being presented as RC450 replicas when they are nothing of the sort.
Give an inch, take a mile.
The future success of VMX is based on the continuation of period integrity. In other words build your bike as trick or individual as you like but if you want to race it in VMX competition, it has to fall into the parameters of the period you which to race it. The Dutch bikes race in Dutch Twin Shock racing and in that context that's their deal. Just don't ever call it VMX because it certainly isn't based on the parameters most of the VMX world goes by.
Have a look at the bikes. Some are cool, others ??, well you make your own minds! up.http://www.dutchtwinshock.nl/english.html]
The puppy bit me so I'm looking for a crocodile . ;D
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Blame the twits that wrote the rules. Human nature will always sniff out loopholes. I don't race but the UK twinshock rules aren't limited on suspension travel so half the open fields appear to be Maico 490s
There's not much scope for earlier stuff being in the hunt
The unit BSAs don't appear to have much in common with what was available back then either,and run on methanol
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The unit BSAs don't appear to have much in common with what was available back then
I agree 100% with you there. Theres a lot of hot/trick/fancy unit BSA's that stretch the rules/dont look quite right getting around in the UK scene.