OzVMX Forum
Marketplace => Wanted => Topic started by: BJJ on May 24, 2009, 06:19:35 pm
-
Anybody know if Yamaha still have metal clutch plates in stock, or who would have a NOS or repro set for sale?
(not the friction plates)
Other thing I am after a loan of in Sydney is a clutch tool for the same model. I know they exist. It's a bendy metal rod thing that you put in place so you can get the nut off the clutch basket....
-
i have one you can borrow if you get stuck
pm me your no i will ring you back monday night
-
the cluth tool is a rag in the teeth. ;)
the steel plates are available :)
for a couple of bucks more buy the barnett clutch - see ebay theyll be some on there :D
-
so freaky how do you stop the inside clutch hub from turning with just a rag in the teeth????????
-
My method is to grip an old metal clutch plate with a pair of vice grips to lock the inner and outer basket then use some rolled up rag between the gears. Could also weld a tab to the old plate for the same effect. What area in Sydney are you?
-
Hi VMXRider. PM Sent.
-
Hi Freakshow. I am reluctant to buy another clutch, becasue I already have the Friction plates and basket.
Yamaha want AUD$29.00 each for the plates./ arrgghh. So, still looking for a cheaper alternative if anyone knows of suppliers phone or email address?? part # 4H7-16325 . Regards...
-
im a bit confused you just want to change the steel plates ? whats the deal then needing to use a tool to pull it apart ? isnt it just 6 screw and the pressure plate comes off and then you unload the plates out the basket ?
IF the clutch is just not hitting in hard enough check the spring free length or ram in some with more ompf ( 35mm) also check that stupid last spacer steal is in the right way, im tempted to say what happens if you piss that spacer out and use another fiction plate ?
Any how IF you have warped or burnt steels as you say just replace them only, steel PLates are on ebay $9.95 , the plates fit all the early stuff. grab some of those even S/H chances are they will be still good. try part number 168-16325-00-00 its the same part, but easier to track.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BARNETT-CLUTCH-DRIVE-PLATE-STL-YAM-YZ-XS-DT-XJ-250-600_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em63Q2el1177QQhashZitem3ca162809bQQitemZ260405624987QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Part # = 4H7-16325-00-00
DT2 - DT3 1973
MX250A - 360A 1974
RT2 - RT3 1973 360
TT350S 1986 - 87
TY250RD 1992
TY350N 1985 -86
XJ600SD 1992 - on XJ600 SECA II
XJ650G 1980- on 650 XJ650
XJ750RH 1981- on
XS650LK 1983 650 XS650L
XT350 1990 --97
XZ550RJ 1982 - 83
YFM350ERA 1990 - 97
YZ250A 1974
YZ250 1983 - 1987
YZ360A 1974
YZ490A 1990
YZ490L 1984 -89
IT465J 1982 - 84
-
Hi Freakshow
Thanks for you detailed concern and extra information. I'll answer your questions, and then leave anything in doubt to the end.
1. I planned to change the steel plates, because the look a little worn. Not sure what thickness they should be, but if they are still within the limit, then obv I would be happy to keep them in there. Also, someone told me last week, that when you change the friction plates, you should also change the steels. With regards to the clutch tool. The current basket has one of it's legs snapped off (possibley due to someone previous not using a clutch tool :) ). I have a NOS basket here ready to be snapped in.
2, Certainly I had not thought much about the springs. But thats something I can check with the verniers. Partly the rush for this clutch rebuild was because last race meet clutch was slipping when selecting 5th gear. Not sure if this is easy to diagnose (clutch plates or springs). I'll need to check on the position of the last spacer to see if that is correct, but thanks for the heads up.
3. Freakshow, thanks for the link to steel plates. Certainly thats a lot cheaper than Genuine.
If anyone has the wear measurements for steels, then good. I am Guessing Yamaha would just replace them back in the day and in the situation of a service/reco.
Lastly, with that link to the Barnett drive plates. In the photo, there is 2 steels and one weird looking disc. What is the weird looking disk for?. Also, that ebay ad is very confusing. The ad says you need 7 plates, but the listing is only showing 2 available.
im a bit confused you just want to change the steel plates ? whats the deal then needing to use a tool to pull it apart ? isnt it just 6 screw and the pressure plate comes off and then you unload the plates out the basket ?
IF the clutch is just not hitting in hard enough check the spring free length or ram in some with more ompf ( 35mm) also check that stupid last spacer steal is in the right way, im tempted to say what happens if you piss that spacer out and use another fiction plate ?
Any how IF you have warped or burnt steels as you say just replace them only, steel PLates are on ebay $9.95 , the plates fit all the early stuff. grab some of those even S/H chances are they will be still good. try part number 168-16325-00-00 its the same part, but easier to track.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BARNETT-CLUTCH-DRIVE-PLATE-STL-YAM-YZ-XS-DT-XJ-250-600_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em63Q2el1177QQhashZitem3ca162809bQQitemZ260405624987QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Part # = 4H7-16325-00-00
DT2 - DT3 1973
MX250A - 360A 1974
RT2 - RT3 1973 360
TT350S 1986 - 87
TY250RD 1992
TY350N 1985 -86
XJ600SD 1992 - on XJ600 SECA II
XJ650G 1980- on 650 XJ650
XJ750RH 1981- on
XS650LK 1983 650 XS650L
XT350 1990 --97
XZ550RJ 1982 - 83
YFM350ERA 1990 - 97
YZ250A 1974
YZ250 1983 - 1987
YZ360A 1974
YZ490A 1990
YZ490L 1984 -89
IT465J 1982 - 84
-
Friction plates are supposed to be 3mm new so you'd replace if under that 2.5 -2.7 mm ( meh) and the steel plates well they shouldnt wear out so to speak, just distort or burn in but would be obvious.
Seams strange it slips in 5th ? why wouldnt it spinin higher ratio's like 1 -3 gears and spin like crazy ?
Some steel plates had assymetrical shapes and you have to lay them in like in 1/7th all the way round ( so its like 15min on the clock or 4-5 teeth from the last) there is a outer bump that tells you the referance point to keep moving the eccetric cut outs around. Stops them being unbalanced.
the springs are supposed to be 33 or 35mm from memory but check
the 250 uses a thicker plate as the end spacer instead of the extra friction plate the 500 or 360 has. Check you have a thicker spacer plate in the end, if not there a problem there and it has the rough face facing inwards.
250 have 7 friction plates
360/500 have 8 friction plates.
i only used that ebay ad as a referance, remember these guys often use generic photo, and also its there version of the original equipt. maybe they have 2 sets of 7 ? dont know but so long as the plates are the same thickness, there shouldnt be any real reason why you cant just put in the one you need to replace, the whole set thing is fine if you have the money and your racing for world domination, but if you just trying to get you bike running so you can enjoy it and race it, why not just keep putting in plates as you find them.
1. check you have all the 7 disks x 2 in the right places including the thicker one ( 15 plates)
2. check for warpage/burns on steels or undersize (less than 2.7mm corks )- replace any or all as you feel like
3. check those springs - unsprung are 33 or 35mm whatever they are supposed to be after 34 years they wouldnt have as much push as they dad year 1.
the slip may also be a result of the plates moving in the dead basket.
if put the new basket in, check the above and ride it and report.
-
Thanks Freakshow, you have been very, very helpful. I know what I have to do, and will report back following the road test.
-
thats what we do ;D
im repaying the help vandy gave me in the thread where i lost a Ball bearing and he was the only one to figure it out, and now it works a treat, sometimes its just enough to get the ideas or at least ask the question, who knows what it might lead you to find, it might not be the right answer but it might lead you in the end to what is. If not youll just go mad trying to figure it out by yourself ::)
or we can just confuse the shit out of ya ;D
luck with it.
-
Hi Freakshow
how many friction plates do DT's have
250 have 7 friction plates
360/500 have 8 friction plates.
-
Hi Billjackjane,
Try to avoid using longer springs - coil-bind may result in which case the clutch will drag.
If the spring free length is within tolerance it will be fine. Spring sag as a result of age will be reflected in the free length.
Clutch slip gets worse as the load increases i.e higher gears.
Ensure that the actuator has free-play, lack of which being the most common cause of clutch slip.
An old drive and driven plate screwed together is the best clutch holding tool.
Use a rattle gun (if you have one) to undo and tighten the centre nut. If you don't have one use a piece of aluminium sheet between the primary gears.
A broken finger on the clutch hub will not cause clutch slip, however wear in the fingers will cause unsmooth clutch operation and undue wear on the plate locating tabs.
-
ok you butchers dont make up some torturess tool
to remove centre hub :o :o
all you do is remove pressure plate
leave all the clutch pack intact
put socket with impact gun on
hold pressure down with your fingers on out side plate
pull trigger on gun (with finger)
it will spin off 8)
reverse procedure to install
dont tell anyone about this method
or they will all be doing it ;D ;)
-
so how do you do it with out the aid of air driven tools ie just a socket spanner
cheers
jim
-
weld a steel rod to an old plate, make sure it fits between clutch fingers .
-
frig mine only looks like it has 6??
-
the 250s have less plates than the 360s i have both at home if you want to have a look.6 is the right no.
check out
cheersjim
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/parts/home.aspx
-
Thaks Jim. I am pulling apart and using UR tool this weekend. Cant help but read that Freak said 7.
Have 3 new plates, have another 3 ariving fron USA this week. Yeah. Thanks for your help.
Whats your opinion on engine oil?
I read some time back on this forum or the past that any oil will do. That motorcycle shop stuff is expensive...
-
OK, so pulled the basket apart.
Seem to agree with Jim, that 73mxa does have 6 friction plates according to my parts pdf. (not 7 or 8)
(http://www.vmx.com.au/images/parts_decals/IMG_2768.JPG)
Not sure if you can see in this photo, but there is 3 plates on the inside, of which there should be.
- the much talked abour spacer 214-16324
- Spacer Clutch Spr 214-16332. I mean what the heck is this.
- 1st Steel 4H7-16325
Spacer Clutch Spr 214-16332 in my case has been replaced with another steel. Not sure if that is a serious no.no? Otherwise all looks normal. Springs are about 34.5mm (withing acceptable range). and there is one Friction plate (3rd from left in photo) that doesn't have metal tabs and is not as wide, that is broken.
So, my plan, unless I hear different, is to replace 6 friction plates, the new basket, and replace with 4T oil and see how she goes in 5th gear. Feedback and comments welcome.
Regards
-
The 3rd cork is wrong piss it off, its out of somthing else.
Last 250mx I had apart, i saw had that steel (on the far left) in between the other 2 with the teeth. like a fictionless plate, check thats in the right spot.
Still think it had 7 corks , but cant say i was counting, butit might say that in my book, cause i also know it say 36mm springs and yet a 74 book says 35mm, so its seems there are variable in there.
-
Hi Guys,
Have a small issue that I need some advice on. I received all the friction plates (6) and placed everything back in the new basket, as per microfiche (parts diagram).
in the meantime the clutch pushrod seems to have lost it's placing on the other side of the motor..
so, when I put the clutch all back together, and pull lever, there is nothing.
I have layed the bike over on it's side an there is no resistance on the clutch push lever.
I think I have had this scenario before. The push rod is definately in there, I think it has just lost it's placing on the gear change side.
Any idea how this can be resolved?
Regards
-
if you have tiped the bike over the spring on the gear shaft liftsoff too and that shift selector comes out and you need to line them back up again, other wise you wont be able to select gears properly when you do get thwrod bac in its spot.
-
Hi Freakshow. Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I do not understand fully what you are suggesting for the clutch or gear selector spring to be rectified. Is yourself or any others able to explain to me in more detail?
I desperately want to have the bike fixed and running for a meet next week.
-
Not sure about the MX250 but a lot of bikes run a steel ball between the two pushrods which you may have misplaced, which would fit the symptoms you describe. Alternatively, ensure that the clutch pack is in correctly and that the pressure (outer) plate is hard up against the first clutch plate. You should be able to tell if the clutch is together correctly by making sure it is engaged when turning the back wheel over in gear.
-
Thanks Yamaico
-
Everything appears to be working well in the clutch department. I won't know for another week until I can test out top gear, to see if it is still slipping. Thanks to all who have contributed of the past many weeks. Thanks to one forum member for lending me his "factory" and "non factory" clutch holding tools.
Recap.
- Clutch was slipping at CRC, but only in top gear, but was able to keep racing
- Replaced 6 x Yamaha Part # Friction Plates
- Replaced #1 Pri Drvn Gear (outer Clutch basket) with NOS unit
- apart from a spacer that was not in place, all was relatively easy
- Replaced oil, with 1L Castrol Activ 4T 15W-50
- Aproximate parts cost = AUD$120.00
-
I thought I'd tap on to this topic with a question which someone may be able to help me with. The MX250A I bought 6 months ago has had clutch slip since I've had it. The seller told me this was the case. I have tried changing the springs, using ATF and working on the adjustment screw but with no success. I had an issue with what spring length is correct and am still not sure what's up there, but this is a minor issue I now believe.
Today I opened the clutch and checked the arrangements of plates against the US Yamaha web site parts breakdown and am again confused. You guys here touched on the number of plates but I have a question to ask which might finally solve my problem.
The web site has a choice of either 6 or 7 plates (not friction plates but item 6):
http://parts.yamaha-motor.com/partbody.aspx?ls=sport&c=4,174529,175271&i=10504,2
When I removed the plates I find mine has 6 plates.
Question(s)
1) Why is there a choice? Could it be a previous owner re built the clutch with 6 instead of 7 and never got it right? I have severe clutch slip from the start and through all gears. Eventually it stops but only just.
2) The first plate, closest to the engine,bottom of the clutch basket seemed to be the same as the other plates. maybe item 3 is the one that is missing?
3) What is the difference in plate number 1 (item 3 on the breakdown) compared to the others? In other words, rather than plate-spacer-plate-friction plate....what I found was plate-spacer-friction plate. That has to be wrong doesn't it?
Anyone have these plates they'd like to sell?
-
the 360 and 250 have similer but not the same clutches
the usa site is incorperating both 250and 360 in the parts lists
also the aust parts list i have is the same but 1 col is for the 250 and the other is for the 360
cheers
jim