OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: ss2fly on May 11, 2009, 02:39:41 pm
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I have recently purchased what I was led to believe was a good used TM125 barrel, head and piston/rings from a reputable parts supplier.
It turned up as promised but when I compared it to my brand new barrel it was exactly the same!! ie port locations, size, shape everything!!!!
What i dont know is which do I have?
2 TM125 barrels or 2 TS125 barrels
I hope it is the former... ;)
Can anyone shed some light on this for me please?
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TM barrel has bridged exhaust port TS doesn't ;)
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Its a BLOODY TS BARREL!!!!!!!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
Piss and S..T!!!
I think I will return it NOW
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I have a stripped down TM motor if Waikanae is closer for you to come and have a look?
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Im in Tauranga mate, a bit far to go for a look ;)
Send me some pics if you like....
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Use the part diagrams here http://www.alpha-sports.com/suzuki_parts.htm they will help
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Lozzas already said a ported TS cylinder is a better option than a TM Cylinder . Why dont you send him your spare TS cylinder , he knows what hes talking about :) TM cylinder is a pain with the exhaust bridge , also a reshaped TS combustion chamber will be superior to a standard TM one.
For what you want to do you would be way better off with a TS or TC 125 A motor as a starting point, you can fit an RMS 125 head and cylinder , 34mm carb RMS chamber you will have 5 or 6 hp more than a TM 125 and it will bolt straight in.
Even a standard ported TS or TC 125 A motor is an improvment over a standard TM ;)
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Classic-vintage/auction-217688913.htm
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Any idea what this magic might cost me for the head and port work?.......Lozza?????
I totally agree that the TS125A method is the way to go but, the aim of this is to look standard and as Im not racing this bike, I think the current plan will suffice....well, I'm 95% decided anyway.....
I have no idea where I will find a RM125S cylinder and head from let alone a pipe, plus the TS125A engine.....
This plan may blow my budget.....
Thinking about it, I may just stay with my current plan and get a genuine TM125 / RM125S/M to restore and race....
Decisions decisions................
This VMX affliction can be a curse, although a welcome one ;)
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here you go :)
http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=ndQ26tf4XrycvJkx
Thanks to cyclegod for the link :D
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Bill, your not helping..... ;)
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I thought he was being very helpfull ;D ::)
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I thought he was being very helpfull ;D ::)
Pikey fork off back to livewire and finish what you started ;)
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Bill, your not helping..... ;)
First rule of VMX disregaurd any budgets ;) There still making Women , kids and you can still borrow money :)
But they ain't making TM or RMS motors any more ;)
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THATS IT I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS!!!! ITS DOING MY HEAD IN!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
I'm staying with my origional plan TS125T/TM125 hybrid in my work bike which I will restore as well!
Then I will find a VMX bike to play with and race...
It WILL be Suzuki
It WILL be 125cc
Therefore TM or RM me thinks.......
Yeah yeah, I'm an oddball with an addiction for the finer things in life.......... ;D
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Budget??? Who the hell sticks to one of those??? ;)
The wife wont even let me have one let alone go over one..... ;D ;D
Bill, I feel we need to talk, in person......
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Then you'll be really be in trouble ::) ;D ;)
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I've a '75 TC125 head that compares only to the factory item excepting it doesn't have the 1 smaller stud hole over the exhaust (it has a large hole ala TS) (how do I know? I've compared the factory item as a very lucky person I know has one for comparison ;))
This head bolts straight onto the TM125 or early TS125 and has much better cooling capabilities, a vastly improved squish chamber shape and the single central plug location. Definately the head to look for. Keep you eyes peeled on ebay, the last NOS TM125 barrel I saw only recently sold for a piddly $120US and $30 post. A touch under $200 in real money...Cheep!! ;)
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Doc, is this a special TC head or are they all the same for the '75 TC125 bikes? they are available over here in NZ so I will start looking for one to go on my TM cylinder.....if the right one ever turns up... >:(
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nope, normal old everyday TC125 (maybe TS too but this one came from a TC) it has to be a '75 model and this is the item you be looking for..though possibly in a little better condition..the trick item is the shitty looking one on the left right left top to bottom and the other is the normal TM head. I do plan to have it sorted though ;)
(http://qrohhw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pzPmfxBQCHmEUP3SNi0fkTjsYn69tl4LHFiN3ebPA4xH5sZzPVdCbGKYdnYIqz6j_Ti4EaxG9_fB5SDbeYsuvpufrec8vvLQx/1975%20TC125%20vs%20TM125.JPG)
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whooops!! :o forget finding a head the same as the one mentioned SS cause you won't. Upon closer inspection this morning it is quite obvious the smaller stud on said has been drilled to suit the TS. To my utter disbelief it does infact appear that I have myself a genuine RA125 head from the early 70's ;D ;D ;D no wonder it looked the same as the real thing because it is the real thing! :o at last I have not just a bling part for my TM but a 'factory' bling part! thanks for making me double check ;D she's the real deal alright, sandcast an' all ;D
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How do you know if something is sand cast ? stupid question i know but what the give aways ? and Mag nesium other than the grey colour whats the story there.
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sandcast has the very rough appearance, dags, imperfections and so on. The production stuff usually has a much smoother finish and maybe even slightly dressed in the rough areas. Magnesium is pretty easy to tell as it looks like normal alloy but it weighs absolutely nothing in comparison ;)
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AAARGH DOC!!!!!
I just sent the TS stuff back and sorted a TM barrel and a '75 TC head :-[
I will now just go with TM stuff (cylinder, head and piston...)
I just gotta re email the dude and change the order....
Oh well, even I make the odd rare mistake... ;)
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Doc i think that head is a P/N 11111-28703
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and just what exactly is that part number Bill? :-\ I've no proper listings for kit parts or trick bits. The front left hole has definately been enlarged as there are some marks and the hole is wee fraction smaller than all the others. I'll let you in on the other head I've seen like it, it's a NOS item and the honorable factory Suzuki guru Mr D.Tanner ownes it. He showed me once during a visit and asked if I'd ever seen anything like this before? Ironically that was the day after I'd pulled this head off the TC so it's appearance was still pretty fresh in my mind. When I mentioned I had and it was on a TC I don't think he quite believed me :D neither did I actually. Bloody story teller! ::) since then it was put back in the TS parts box and it totally slipped my mind...until last night ;D I sent some photo's to Dave for comparison back when and he agree'd it did indeed look like the item he has but we never took it any further. I am now 100% sure it is the same, indeed a rare item and I am very blessed to have it to bolt onto my TM 8)
Sorry SS, I'll shut up now and let others guide you since I don't seem to know what I'm playing with :D
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Will have to change your tank sticker Doc. Go the RA/TS ;D
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Doc PM sent
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Bill probably right mate. Will measure it up and send some details later this arv ;)
Pokey whatever made that pop into your mind! :D I love it! I just wish I did have a real pre'75 RA125..for me it's probably the holy grail of VMX. I absolutely love the RN's and RH's but for mine the RA's are far more rare and desirable. Never have I seen one in real life..flat out even finding a picture of one! :D
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Here's what you need...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230343190717&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:us
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1974-SUZUKI-TM-125-CYLINDER-HEAD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a10Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem330330445235QQitemZ330330445235QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
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I now have a TM cylinder, head, piston and rings ;D
All I need now is a few gaskets, bearings etc which should be easy enough to aquire.....
Hard parts may be:
Rod assembly
PIPE !!!!
and possibly something i haven't considered..... ;)
Can anyone help with these parts???
I also need to know how far a TM125 cylinder can safely be bored? It is 1mm over now and may need another oversixe (if one exists) wont know till I mic it up and see....
Cant wait to get started once the doner TS engine arrives.... :D
Over and out
Andy
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You can go out to 2.5mm using TS pistons (5mm longer skirt than TM) and , so I've heard, CR125M pistons.
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I thought 2mm over was the max oversize using TS pistons CG? 2mm over = 58mm or a Wiseco P8 Kit. Cr125 pistons also work but not sure how far the oversizes go ;) the 5mm extra on the TS piston can be left there with minimal difference. I personally wouldn't cut the extra length from the skirt but I know some who have trimmed them back and no issue 'so far' ;)
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I'm not too worried about the piston issue....have a TM and TS piston to compare and not a lot of difference, will probably trim the skirt on the TS if I need to use it although I can mod the ports to compensate......decisions decisions......
Pistons can be used from different makes / models with a little thinking.
years ago I built another "hybrid".... from memory it went something like:
-early to mid 80's KX 250 frame
-50 mm forks or thereabouts
-XR250A engine bored to take a GSX1100 "big bore" kit piston
-XR tank / seat
All I really remember was you had to watch out!!! It went hard !!!!! ;) should never have sold it, wonder where it is now..... ::)
What Im saying is do a little research and you'll be amazed what may happen.....
I can always try making one.......One of Ford, one of Chev........ ;) ;) :D On ya Burt.....
Andy
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mmm..as you said 'have to keep it rideable for the road' SS so no point going too crazy or it'll drive you insane in traffic. I'd be wary of cutting the skirt, the transfer cutaways are pretty much the same as is the rest of the piston and extra length may actually make it a little more pleasant to ride at anything other than flat out when on the streets. To be honest if I was building 1 for road use I'd run the stock TM barrel, TS piston, 26mm carb, pod filter and a nice exhaust. If I wasn't happy I'd then fit the TM ratios and play with sprocket sizes. If you want to keep it reliable, easy on fuel and a pleasure to ride there is no point going balistic ;)
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Got it in one Doc...
Stage one is:
Standard TM cylinder and head
TS piston (if the existing TM piston is unservicable)
28mm carb (origional TM hop-up carb)
TS bottom end
TM or similar pipe (if someone is willing to sell me one....)
Custom airbox
I will consider my options once I have this sorted.............
This is all just a time filler project untill i get my hands on a TM125 / 250 / 400 to restore as this is where I want to head eventually
Along with a 1957 Sumbeam S7 Delux................... ;)
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One thing to consider is one stud on the cases is different from the TS to TM. IIRC the TM has a stud inboard of the TS one.The TS barrel has a casting knob where the stud goes. Just something to watch for.
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Thanks Lozza, I'm sure it is fixable....... just need to get my grubby little mits on the bits.....
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'tis simply a matter of swapping the 65mm stud for a 25mm unit Loz ;)
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close I knew there was something with that stud.
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Right, I will have the TM barrel tomorrow supposedly........... The bloke I got it off said he can only supply a TS head.... :-\
Is there much difference between the two different heads ( I have never seen a TM head so I cant tell..)
As it stands, I dont have much choice but use the TS head that comes with the TM bits....
BUGGER!!
Out of all the available heads out there, which one is more "desirable", TS / TM / TC / TF.....????
I might get the better one, if there is such a thing and modify the squish area and plug position etc....
Not sure yet....
Nothing goes simply!
Andy
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1974-SUZUKI-TM-125-CYLINDER-HEAD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a4Q7c65Q3a10Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a200QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem330330445235QQitemZ330330445235QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
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Yeah, thanks CG.
Saw that on egay....
Problem is, by the time I get it to NZ it will owe me FAR to much money.... >:(
I have to operate on the crappy NZ dollar which is not worth bugger all green backs at the mo.... :)
Any other ideas??
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Forget about the TF stuff ::) if you dont want to spend a few bob on post from the US you wont want to spend money getting all the holes welded up in a 6 stud TF head and then re drilled and remachined.
if you want to go that way i will give you a TF head just pay postage :)
I can sell you a Standard used TM 125 head if you want $NZ60.00 + postage :)
Or a used factory Kit head $NZ175.00 inc postage :)
Or a NOS factory kit head $NZ350.00 inc postage :)
Or a used DG Radial head $NZ450.00 inc postage :)
hope this helps Bill
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mmm..you wouldn't have a porcupine head for a TM would you Bill? I'm preeeety sure I could refinance the house to fund it :D porcupine heads are bling city in my eyes regardless of their function 8) wouldn't be selling my kit head for under $250au even if it were for sale ;) for $400 I may consider selling :P
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ok whats the diff between the kit head and the std head for all of us not in the know?
TT5 Matt
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Matt, go back a page (page2) in this thread. The head I found amongst my junk is infact more than likely a kit head and the pictures show the differences ;)
(http://qrohhw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pzPmfxBQCHmEUP3SNi0fkTjsYn69tl4LHFiN3ebPA4xH5sZzPVdCbGKYdnYIqz6j_Ti4EaxG9_fB5SDbeYsuvpufrec8vvLQx/1975%20TC125%20vs%20TM125.JPG)
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TF stuff forgotten about as of this moment forth Bill !!!!!
I'll be keen on a Std used TM head for $60 + postage. i will let you know when I need it.......funds, time, wife.....etc.... ;)
I will probably throw the TS head on it at the moment untill I can sort the TM head...
You dont want to sell me a TM pipe too do you ??? ;) ;D I'm sure I can find the dosh for that ! ;D
I'll be in touch soon I hope.
Thanks again
Andy
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Cool :) if your using a TS head on a TM cylinder it would pay to make a spacer for the RHF bolt hole 12mm down to 8mm ;)
Sorry no spare TM pipes at the moment .
Geoff Morris makes a nice TM 125 pipe see his advert on this site :)
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Ok thanks fulla. I have a lathe so the spacer is not an issue...
I conversed briefly with Geoff the other day and he led me to believe he hasn't quite got round to the TM pipe yet but will soon.....unless you know something I dont......