OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Ji Gantor on May 11, 2009, 01:08:26 pm
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I have started this topic so all members that are interested in learning how to TIG weld can join me and hopefully others to shine a light on this dark art.
I request that boilermakers please add what they know to this discussion in a polite manner so we can hear it from the men and woman that TIG weld for a living.
TIG welds are some of the most beautiful welds I have ever seen and I have a great respect for all those that can fish scale alloy.
So lets get our leather gloves on and set the flow meter.
Ji
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think of it as gas welding with a different heat source....an arc.
so if you can't gas weld it is probably a good thing to learn first (its how apprentices are trained). Like gas the length of the arc changes how much heat you are putting in. Once you get a puddle of molten metal on both the pieces you are joining, join the puddle using heat and a little filler rod and off you go welding and adding more metal as required.....enjoy
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Hi marcFX,
Thanks for contributing.
I agree that it is exactly like Oxy welding but with electricity.
Ji
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oh forgot to mention it helps a lot if thing fit together well before you start welding.
now TIG welding is one thing but I have always been way impressed by people who can gas weld alloy.....especially gas tanks
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Can you gas weld alloy?
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Gas welding aluminium(NOT F^#KING ALLOY) is pretty simple, just apply flux to the filler rod when the pool forms throw the filler at it. After you have completed the weld then your problems begin.As that flux you lavished on the job is highly corrosive, the job will have to be washed, boiled and neutralised and do the same all over again.Aluminium can also be brazed with the correct flux and a 4043 filler wire. Beware as the melting point of the flux and the aluminium is very close.
With that out of the way we can move to Tungsten Inert Gas, you have DC and AC, DC is for ferrous metals/alloys and AC is for non-ferrous mostly aluminium and magnesium(could there be another??). Next is the machine, modern power sources have all the parameters of the arc controllable.Slope up Slope down, Pulse, Pre/Post Flow,Crater Fill,High Frequency start AC Balance and Frequency. So it's possible to have your weld infintiely varied. From a thin narrow weld that goes deep into thick material or a wide shallow weld on very thin material (like 0.5mm Al).Also modern power sources have a square wave (as opposed to an old sine wave) on AC this give more time at peak amps and less time at near zero amps.The arc is controlled by HF start (bringing the torch in close contact with the job) or lift arc,when the electrode is lifted off the job the arc starts.Then there is a botton on the torch to press once to start then again to begin slope down amps/crater fill or that can be done with a foot control.
A power source is very cheap these days for a single phase, something I couldn't do without.
So bit more to it than the old oxy.
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My tips for anyone starting to tig weld:
You gotta get the basics right first. set the gas so it can be felt accross your lip and heard slightly. Get a piece of material appropriate to the gas your using. with a helmet on of cause, strike an arc by resting the side of the nozzle on the job pivot on the nozzle and the tip will go toward the material once it gets approx 1-2mm from the job it will arc and should not stick. you will see a molten pool apear in the sheet of material move the pool accross the job slowly. Once you can do this with ease then you can try adding filler rod. Be patient
OLDYZMAN
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Oh I almost forgot, you'll need a grinder with a silicon carbide wheel. I would at first practice walking backwards and forwards many times to the grinder and profiling the electrode. ;D ;D
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ive been wanting to learn to weld i will keep a eye on this thread.
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Hey Lozza, The typical $1000 chinese 4in1TIG/MMA/plasma units that are on ebay, are these good enough or do you have to spend a bit more to get something worth while??
Does a poorer quality TIG welder affect the quality of the weld or do they just have a poor duty cycle / durability
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That would depend on what your going to do.If you intend making a living from it probably not, but if it's just for home use probably no drama's ,just check on the availabilty and cost of new boards.Should not effect weld quality a lot of that is the user.
Oh yes one other thing unless you have 3 phase in your shed, you are thinking of a single phase tig, you may be needing a 15 or 20 amp plug then you need a 15 or 20 amp outlet and only 1 outlet should be on the circuit(is that correct Hoony???) So an upgrade of power cable to 4mm2 plus a 20amp circuit breaker at the new box in the shed with 4mm2 to the 20amp outlet.
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Hey Lozza, The typical $1000 chinese 4in1TIG/MMA/plasma units that are on ebay, are these good enough or do you have to spend a bit more to get something worth while??
another option, buy small single phase portable welder, then buy separate rectifier, hoses and gauges etc, any little single phase welder with 130-150 amp range will do, you buy them second hand for beer money, or maybe you have one.
Not as cool as the electronic portable welders but cheaper and unlikely to give you any technical problems.
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http://www.trademe.co.nz/Business-farming-industry/Industrial/Manufacturing-metalwork/Welders/auction-217889470.htm
there you go something like this $140 and you are away
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Thank you fellow members these are all great tips.
Can I please ask that those members that contribute that are Boilermakers please express that they are Boilermakers so other members will know that their advice is gold.
Nothing fancy Just "I am a Boilermaker and this is my tip"
I know that this topic will generate a lot of learning and understanding and with that said it is good to get the best advice from some one that does it every day rather than from some one who has just Googled the info.
Lead by example, so I will go first.
I am not a boilermaker.
I have completed 2 courses on welding, both included Oxy, Arch and Mig welding.
I own an Arch, Mig and a TIG welder.
I have been Mig welding privately for 12 years with a Lincoln 180amp portable.
I have owned a Hong Kong made TIG welder for one year.
Ji
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My first tip for TIG welding was a practical example I experienced first hand.
I was in my local welding shop picking up supplies when a chap walked in and asked what was a good helmet for TIG welding. After a few minutes an ambulance turned up and took this chap away.
I then had to know the story.
This fellow hired a Tig welding unit from a local hire shop. He was told that TIG welding was like Oxy welding which is what this fellow had done for the past 20 years. On returning to his workshop he donned his green Oxy goggles and started to weld. After half a day of welding he decided he needed a new welding shield as he was finding it hard to see the puddle and that is when I saw him in the shop. TIG welding emits the most amount of radiation as this poor chap found out. He spent 3 days in hospital where all the skin on his face peeled off and his eyes recovered.
My Grandfather was a Boilermaker for 45 years. He Oxy welded every day and only used those green goggles. After twenty years a surgeon cut off his nose. After 30 years the same surgeon cut off both of his ears. I never found out how many cancers they cut out of his arms.
So with that said I think my first tip should be to urge others to buy a good quality welding shield, one that is TIG rated. If going for an auto darkening unit they should darken in 1 : 25 0000 of a second.
Millers start at around $350.00 and go up to $900.00.
Ji
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I am not a bolier maker as their union/trade was deregistered in NZ for being useless bastards
I am a tradesman fitter machinist
I have welded a fair amount of stainless along the way
And yeah welding probably will kill you and sucks as a full time profession, I think welders earn every cent they earn.
regarding protective equipment, normally I use standard $50 welding helmet and riggers gloves, also roll your sleeves down and cover the front of your chest.
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Thank you marcFX,
Your tips are gold.
Welding did not kill my Grandfather but it did leave a lasting image of him to those that loved him.
Wear all the protective clothing that you can afford when welding and have a fire extinguser or hose ready at all times.
Ji
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sorry to hear about your Grandfather, the fumes from welding can be brutal as well as the radiation.
we used to get zinc poisoning from welding Galv a lot.... can't be good for you
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Thanks marcFX,
MarcFX has started the next pearl of wisdom.
The welding gloves for TIG are not the same as for other types of welding.
The electrode hand glove is similar to other types but the filler hand glove is thinner leather so you can feed the rod into the puddle. This take some getting use to with leather gloves on. The filler rod is pushed through the hand by the thumb and then dabbed into the puddle. The rod is raised but must stay inside the gas shield area so it does not become contaminated.
Ji
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Normally I don't get involved in these threads but here goes,
Yes I am a boilermaker by trade (but that makes me no expert)
Yes I own a fabrication shop that does mig welding of mild steel, aluminium and stainless steel (more so the mild steel and that still does not make me an expert)
Yes I do a little tig welding manly my own items (still not one)
Aluminium tig can be not so difficult to do if you follow a couple of steps
Number one is clean material must be clean and like painting most of the work is in the preperation
Right gas for the job Argon for tig welding of aluminium and stainless
Right tungsten for the job (differs from stainless to aluminium)
Most blokes out there can weld stainless tig if they can oxy weld (oxy welding of steel is not that easy), the only other problem with aluminium tig welding is controlling the amperage when welding and also the molten pool as with aluminium the pool does not change colour (unlike steel), also with the heat transfer the job can soon get very hot and you will find you have to much amperage so always best to pre-heat your aluminium jobs and start with a lower amperage as it is easier to control.
Mosts castings on bikes will have a aluminium alloy base of magnesium (the more magnesium the lighter it is) and things of a structural nature more silcon based alloys as straight aluminium is very soft and of little structural use.
Welding machine wise I am not going to comment on as it will depend on the amount of use you need it for and the type of welding you do but with aluminium welding you need a machine with HF (high frequency) that keeps the arc from job to the tungsten on AC welding. We use a Kemppi brand machine that are good but are very dear to buy.
I would think the man with the most knowledge on this would be Geoff Morris as he does it day in day out.
Shane
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My turn...
I am not a Boilermaker.
I am a Domestic Engineer (underpaid).
I have welded the hay shed roof trusses.(on the ground)
Can you TIG weld anything else but Aluminium?.
Are MIG and TIG the same ?
Thanks & cheers 8)
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Hi STW996,
Thanks for your input.
I am so glad you decided to add to this topic.
Ji
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Hi VMX247,
TIG can weld all metals including brass.
Mig and TIG are very different.
TIG is great because there is no splatter so nothing to clean up after the welding.
Ji
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My TIG welder is made in Hong Kong and costs about $1800.00. It comes with a 12 month warranty and a spare parts back up service.
It is a 200amp AC inverter type.
Ji
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There are a lot of dials and switches on these TIG units but they all mean something.
We have to learn what they do and how do we get the best out of our welders.
Ji
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For my example I will write about aluminium TIG welding.
The first dial is "Pre Flow"
To weld Aluminium Argon gas is used.
The Pre Flow dial is set so the gas will flow for a set time prior to the arc starting. This shields the work piece from contamination on start up.
Ji
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The next dial is "Base Current"
If we go to the Miller's site http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/calculators/tig_amperage_calculator.php and use their calculator we discover that the amperage range for 3mm thick aluminium fillet welds is 100-140amps.
So the base current dial can now be set to 100amps.
Ji
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The next dial is "Peak Current"
Referring back to the Miller's calculator we see that the top end of the amperage range is 140amps.
We can now set the peak current dial.
When welding aluminium we will have to adjust this dial so we don't melt or over penetrate the work piece.
Ji
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The next dial is "Down Slope"
This dial controls the amperage when we release the trigger. After all you don't want peak current when finishing a run. I have found setting this dial pointing straight up is fine.
Ji
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"Pulse Width"
This dial allows us to broaden the pulse width which simply means the width of the puddle.
With this dial we can make the puddle 6mm or 3mm wide.
Ji
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"Pulse Freq"
The pulse frequency dial allows us to adjust the penetration of our weld. It also can adjust the width of the puddle if played with.
Ji
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"Post Gas"
The post gas dial is set so the argon gas will continue to flow out protecting the job after we have released the trigger. After all the molten aluminium takes a few seconds to harden. So we set the time interval accordingly. When you have finished a run and have released the trigger keep the gun in place until the gas has stopped flowing or until the puddle has hardened.
Ji
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"Clear Width"
The clear width dial allows us to adjust the high frequency cleaning width required for aluminium welding. This cleaning process can be seen as a white boarder around our weld.
Ji
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Next are the switches.
These switches convert the welder from AC to DC and a few other things so lets take look.
Ji
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The first toggle switch if pointing up allows us to vary the amperage via a foot control.
If pointing down the current will be set by its duty cycle between the base and peak current dial settings.
Ji
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The middle toggle switch is self explanatory.
If pointing up the unit will be set to AC for aluminium and thus the earth clamp must be connected to the positive feed.
If pointing down the unit is set to work in DC and the earth clamp is connected to the negative feed.
Ji
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The last toggle switch has three positions.
If pointing up we are ready for TIG welding.
In the middle the unit is able to Manual Arc Weld and
if pointing down my welder is a plasma cutter.
Ji
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The flow of gas required to weld aluminium is some where between 12-15 litres per minute.
This is set via a flow meter attached to the regulator or a portable unit that is pushed on to the nozzel of the gun when the trigger is pulled.
Ji
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If we now go back to the Miller's calculator we find that a 2.4mm diameter electrode is what is required to weld 3mm thick aluminium.
Don't try and use a 1.6mm electrode or it will burn up into the gun as soon as the arc is started.
Also don't sharpen the electrode when welding aluminium, just place it in the collet as is. With in a few seconds of welding you will notice that the end of the electrode will have a cool looking ball attached. This is what we are looking for.
The white colour band electrode is what we need for aluminium.
Extend the electrode about 2-5mm outside the gas cup nozzle.
The gas cup should be 9.5-11mm.
Ji
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Good stuff Ji
I have been looking at buying one of those chinese 4in1 welders for a while but hadn't had a report to hear how good they were. I was also a bit scared off by all the knobs, because I'm new to TIG. This thread has answered all my questiond in one go ;D
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Got a tig ticket in 98. Owned a well used Sincosold 200A AC/DC since 04.
Weld every second day and the in between day I machine something.
X-Rays and Gamma rays from arcs are indeed worse than the sun.
Gas companies will rip you off blind for cylinder rentals. FZ from Air Liquide is the best value.
Gas Lenses/Diffusers are good gas economy (gas consumption down to 8-10 l/min) and coverage area increased.
TIG parts are normaly cheaper at the local welding shop than ebay.
Multitude of different length collets, different shaped ceramics and collet lock thingys to get into tight places.
Ceriated electrodes are crap and give them a wide berth(supposed to do both AC and DC but do neither any good).
One drawback is you can't usualy weld outside without some sort of a good windbreak, as your gas will just waft away.
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Hi Mick22,
I think most want a bee TIG welders feel the same as you about the Chinese units.
The manuals don't tell you a thing about how to set it up.
I wish I had some one to tell me about all this stuff but as I have found out in life it is better to bight off more than you can chew and chew like mad.
Some of these cheap welders are not worth the money as you spend more time sending them back from where they came.
I hope I and the other dedicated members have helped you and many more like you find a TIG torch in your hand in the future.
Ji
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Hi Lozza,
Thanks for adding to this topic.
Your contribution is gold.
As we have seen a lot of interested TIG welders are enjoying and benefiting from your efforts.
Ji
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The other way to get into TIG welding is to purchase a second hand unit.
These are cheaper than a new one and better quality than a Chinese unit.
Miller, Lincoln ....... all join the list of the top shelf companies.
The attached image is of an old unit that still works great. It has a water cooled handle and a lot less dials. Parts are getting hard to find but not much has gone wrong with this welder because it is a quality product.
Ji
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When you start out buying TIG gear hire a D size gas bottle from the cheapest supplier you can find as Lozza explained.
Don't get fooled into these throw away bottles.
They contain 60 litres of gas which should provide about 6 minutes of welding. Sounds good but the gas regulator and fittings that come with it leak gas every where and they are push fittings not clamped so impossible to seal.
Before you have finished one run you will need another $35.00 bottle.
A cheap solution that ends quite dear.
Ji
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Okay so the machine is set up for aluminium welding. All the dials have been set and the gas flow checked. The earth clamp is attached to the practise plate and we have the right electrode ready to go. We are inside our shed so the wind does not blow away our gas and we have all the protective gear on.
What's next?
We have to have a practise to see what is going to happen when we pull the trigger or stomp down on the foot pedal.
The attached image is to show some mistakes which you should do so you really learn what is what.
First I turned the amps up to far and applied the electrode to the corner of my test plate. The corner could not handle so much heat and just melted.
The second test was to apply the electrode to the plate with out any gas flow. This is the black spot above the corner. This is carbon which now has to be cleaned off before we can continue.
The second black spot above the corner is when I touched the electrode on to the plate surface. The electrode deposited some of itself onto the plate and some of the plate coated the electrode. Both have to be cleaned before we can continue.
Ji
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Our next practise should be something simple, something that only uses one hand so we can learn how to use the torch.
Position the torch about 5mm above the plate and pull the trigger. Move the electrode to within 2mm and when the arc starts watch the molten pool form. Once the pool has formed move the torch in a cirular motion and advance slowly. Try and keep the pool moving in a straight line and keep the pool about 6mm wide. Practise this for a while until you get the hang of it.
The circular motion gives the fish scale pattern.
Ji
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After we feel we can handle the torch we move on to the filler rod.
I will be using a 2.4mm diameter ER5356 filler rod for my practise plate.
The rods only cost 70cents.
Each rod is marked so you know what rod is used on what metal
Ji
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Once the pool has formed move the torch in a cirular motion and advance slowly. Try and keep the pool moving in a straight line and keep the pool about 6mm wide. Practise this for a while until you get the hang of it.
Ji
they all called puddle runs, next trick is to fusion weld two pieces together, just back two alloy edges hard up to each other and practice fusing without introducing any filler.
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The next exercise is to introduce the filler rod.
This is not easy and takes a bit of time to get the hang of it.
Start the arc and look for the puddle.
When the puddle forms start the circular motion with the torch.
When the electrode is at the back on the puddle dab the filler rod into the leading edge of the puddle.
Raise the rod away from the electrode but still in the gas shield.
Continue with the circular motion and dab the rod again while advancing slowly.
when you have travelled an inch release the trigger but leave the torch in place until the gas flow has stopped.
Do this many times until you can really control the width of your bead, height and penetration.
Ji
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When you get to the end of your run you will notice a crater.
This can be improved with practise.
When you release the trigger dab the filler rod a few times into the puddle as it cools.
This will fill the crater and finish the run.
Ji
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Do countless runs.
As Firko said to me
"Practice, practice, practice. Then when you're reasonably satisfied with your technique..........Practice some more"
Ji
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When you can control your width and heat another exercise is to stand up a piece of plate and lay a run down on top of it like in the attached image. Once the first layer is down lay another run on top of it and so.
This is a great way to learn how to repair cylinder head fins.
Ji
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Im confused is the filler coming in from behind or infront ? can you show a picture of where you hands are and the touch filler in relation to the job and and arrow to show direction of travel ?
might make it easier to get my head around what you saying there.
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Unfortunately I would need a few more pairs of hands to hold the filler rod, the torch and a camera.
Next time I am near a welding yard I will ask one of the Boilermakers if he will model for me.
Ji
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Use your teeth .......... :o)
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Freaky, hold torch at aprrox 60 degrees to material being welded and proceed along welded section dabbing filler rod in front of arc
Tunsten is creating a puddle so filler rod can be added ( rod is being applied to section cooling off
NOT the other way round ) does this make sense
Ji ...Al oxide is the biggest beginners nightmare .......clean & re- clean prior to welding
pre heating materal is also over looked
As a general rule tip size equals rod size
tip size versus amps
tungsten in general protrudes past ceramic dia of tungsten
an old trick but a goody, when you tungsten gets contaminated break contaminated piece off .
Change polarity to direct current electrode positive and strike n ark on your work bench ( this will
reball the tip as you may say ) . Switch machine back to original settings and your Ok to begin
welding again.
Ji does this get your approval ::)
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Thats Gold
Are you a Boilermaker Oldfart?
Ji
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NO - learnt how to weld on an old lincon water cooled when I was an apprentice. licenced SHITHOUSE mechanic ;D some say a licence to print money which is NOT true ;)
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Is this the same principals as a soldering iron on lead for lead light windows ???
cheers
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Hey,
Tig welding lead light windows. I would pay to see that!!
WhooooHooo
VMX42
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Hey,
Tig welding lead light windows. I would pay to see that!!
WhooooHooo
VMX42
sorry- meant principles on positioning of your hands whilst moving along the join/weld. ?
need a photo as mentioned before of it happening 8)
cheers
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Okay I will try and use my teeth.
Ji
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So i print out the whole thread, take it up to the workshop where my new TIG welder awaits me. i have bought the correct filler rods set the machine up as advised and proceeded to go no where real fast. Not a puddle in sight, in fact looked more like i was etching the plate than anything else. After an hour of playing with the thing, i gave up in frustration. ARC, MIG, GAS, these i can handle with and i think do a pretty good job. This TIG thing has pushed me past breaking point.
HELP PLEASE
(http://www.wideopenflatout.com/Welder/welder.jpg)
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Well Bahnsy TIG is TIG it isn't arc,gas or mig. If your in that much trouble why not enroll in a course at the local TAFE?Start with the basics, running a weld pool along the material.
OK well start with DC settings for ferrous metals (mild, stainless , titanium copper nickel etc etc). Switch to DC, 2T and TIG , set base current to 60% and peak current to 100% (of the required 40Amps per mm of material) Try that on mild steel and just see if you can get a weld pool and run it along the material.Is the electrode sharpened to a long fine point? Is the electrode a red tip for DC/ferrous welding or a white tip for non-ferrous(aluminium/magnesium)AC welding?
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then just move the sharp tip of the electrode close to the material....not touching until the arc starts, then when you can see it start move in closer and start to concentrate the heat into a pool, make a pool then move forward adding small amounts of filler.like gas welding with an arc
Start out with stainless filler wire, it will stick to anything. When you have both weld pieces hot with a pool formed sometimes you just add a little filler rod to get the party started and then you can run the pool along the two pieces adding just enough filler to keep the pool the same size. Sometimes you need a little filler like in a fillet weld to 'jump' the poll between the two pieces.
Your hands should keep the torch at about 20-30 degrees in the direction of travel depending how fast you are going.
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remember NEVER touch the electrode on what you are welding it should be about 10 mm away from the pool
your etching comment sounds messed up like the welder is set wrong.....like in AC
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NOTE .... Make sure you have long pants on and your top button done up on your long sleeve shirt ;)
or you will regrett it the next day
Take your time and don't rush things
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Hi Bahnsy,
Yes I agree TIG will send one to drink.
I have been helping first timers not unsimilar to myself sort out the problems on the Millers forum.
First you have to tell us exactly what you are doing so we can help.
Material you are trying to weld,
Material thickness,
Electrode colour,
Electrode thickness,
Electrode end profile,
What polarity have you clamped to the job,
Are you using the foot controller,
What gas are you using,
What is the gas flow rate you have set.
When we know all this I am sure we will get you welding.
Don't give up.
It is worth the problems.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG12.jpg)
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Hi Bahnsy,
This is how I do TIG welding.
This has been provided as information only.
Refer to the Australian Standards for correct safety and use of welding equipment.
Ji
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Lets start at the beginning.
First place the job clamp into the positive connector on the welder.
Clamp the job clamp directly to a coupon of 3mm thick aluminium that has been S/S wire brushed clean.
Set the welder to AC.
Set the welder to TIG.
Turn the pulse off (That is the toggle switch with the straight line and the square wave above, set to straight line).
Ji
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Connect a bottle of pure Argon gas.
With the torch pointed into the air pull the trigger and adjust the gas flow to 7 or 8 litres per minute.
Install a 2.4mm White tip electrode into the torch.
Make sure that you have selected the correct collet for the thickness of the electrode.
Ji
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Do not grind the point of the electrode. The electrode will ball on its own.
Install a size 5 ceramic cup on the end of the torch.
Move the electrode so it protrudes 3mm from the end of the cup and lock off.
Ji
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Welder settings.
Pre flow 1 secs
Peak current 120amps
Basic Current 65amps
Down slope 2
Arc force Not sure as mine does not have this setting try middle position
Pulse freq is now off
Pulse duty is now off
Clean width 50
Gas after flow 4 secs
Helmet
adjust your shielding screen to 12 so you can see the puddle form.
before the aluminium puddles it turns shiny.
When it turns shiny add some filler rod to the leading edge of the puddle.
Ji
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Filler rod.
Match the electrode diameter so in this case use 2.4mm diameter 5356 rod.
position the torch electrode about 10mm from the job and pull the trigger.
As the arch is formed move the electrode to within 3mm of the job.
Hold the torch steady and wait for the alloy to go shiny.
Add some filler by dipping the rod at the leading edge while moving the electrode to the rear of the puddle.
Never touch the electrode to the job or the filler rod.
If you do touch one or both stop work and clean the job with a S/S wire brush and snap 12mm off the end of your electrode before commencing.
Always use a full face helmet.
Always use overlapping gloves and longsleeve shirt.
Always do the buttons up all the way to within the helmet.
TIG welding must be done in a non windy area so the gas is not blown away.
Always make sure you have ventilation so you are not breathing in the burnt gas.
Ji
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Hi Bahnsy,
I suggest that you turn your post gas flow down to 1 second while learning.
This will save gas as you will be pulling the trigger so many times when learning.
In the begining you will touch the electrode onto the job and then the filler rod. You will over heat the job and have a burn through or a melt down.
Don't be discouraged this happens to every body that takes up TIG welding, every pro started this way.
Ji
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After about a week of constant TIG welding every afternoon I finally started to get the hang of it.
I used a D size gas bottle and countless filler rods. I cleaned my electrode countless times.
I tried different size electrodes and filler rods.
I welded "T" fillet and open corner welds until I could produce a weld that was strong and not to bad looking.
It all takes time.
The settings on the machine are the hard part first up.
Keep going it is great when you get it right.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG20.jpg)
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Hi Ji,
Notice how the weld gets better as you go along,
try preheating the work piece, hold the torch closer to 90' and come in from a similar angle as close as you can to the torch (so it passes through the gas screen before melting) with your filler rod
don't start adding filler till you have a nice puddle at the start.
The heat sink at the back is a good idea but if you welding alloy I would use a different material, i.e Steel or Brass
Cheers
Noel
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Good advice from a pro there Noel ;D 65% is the best compromise for cleaning/ electrode decay in AC mode.
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Hi Noel,
Are you a boilermaker?
Please post some images of your aluminium TIG welding.
I posted my images to help new comers get started.
As you have mentioned there are lots of tricks to improve our welding technique, but what a new comer needs is how to set up the welder first, followed by some basic tips.
Pepper in the weld, burn throughs, melt downs, reducing weld bead width and oxidation all will be problems to the first timer and pro alike but in the beginning all he wants to do is run one ugly looking bead so he can see that the money and effort was worth it. I spent a week getting to know how the machine needed to be set up before anything good came out of it. I then went onto the Millers forum and started helping beginers. How to set up their machines was the biggest problem. All experts offered on that forum was clean the material. Yes I agree that having a clean plate is very important but you can still lay down a bead on a non cleaned plate. After all this is just practise, your first TIG weld could and should not be used on a project. To learn properly all beginners should screw up in all directions so they know what happens when they do that and that is why I showed what it looks like when you try and weld without gas or touching the electrode onto the job and so on.
With this said is there anything in the set up of Bansy's machine that you can recommend that I have not covered?
Is there any other tip or image that you can post that can see him on his way?
I discovered that holding the torch at just about 90 degs is the best angle especially when doing T fillet welds. The open corner weld image I posted was still just practise. I came up with the alloy angle heat sink to prevent melting at the ends. I tried steel but it did not remove enough heat, I would like to try brass but it is so expensive I decided that the alloy angle was as good as it gets for some one that does not weld for a living. I started that weld in the middle of the plate and kept welding until I got to the end, I then turned it around and started from the centre and welded to the other end. This way it kept the heat down and prevents a melt down at the ends. I know you should always weld towards a pre heat section but this works for me at this point. Welding open corner welds is easier than welding T fillets and that is why most of the alloy tool boxes are done that way. I went and had a look at some of the welds on some expensive alloy tool boxes and discovered that their welds are not much better than mine. The beads also had pepper in them.
Thanks for your submission I look forward to many more.
Ji
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NOTE .... Make sure you have long pants on and your top button done up on your long sleeve shirt ;)
or you will regrett it the next day
Take your time and don't rush things
too true the skin has only just grown back on my arms after fully welding the KSI theme bike..... how do they do it on American Chopper....hell they don't even wear goggles or welding masks, big Paul is tough.
if you are total beginners no fancy stuff, practice with Mild steel and stainless filler rod.....it will all flow together and look decent.
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If any one has a problem seeing the puddle or judging the distance between the electrode and the job there is a solution.
WK make this gas saver kit that comes with a clear pyrex cup.
Pretty cool.
I coupled it with a ProFax flex head and now I can see all and get the torch into where it needs to be without suspending my hands.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/Torch6.jpg)
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I agree with MarcFX,
How Paul welds with out any protection is stupid.
He will end up like my Grandfather.
Don't do it, it is not cool.
I wear a leather apron when TIG welding.
Ji
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I may have missed something in the posts here but....Bahnsy, do you have the pilot arc turned on?
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Whats a Pilot Arc? :-[
The pic that i posted is the machine that i have without foot controls.
Am i missing something?
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No Bansy you are fine.
The pilot arc that Firko is talking about is not on your machine.
The arc on your machine is formed when you pull the trigger via the AC setting.
Have you tried my suggested set up?
Ji
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Tomorrow Night i'm gunna get at it.
Be ready for the posts ;D
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I will be ready.
This time it should work fine.
Make sure you are sitting down and cumfy up to your work bench.
Make sure you have your forearms resting on the bench so you can steady the torch.
Ji
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Bahnsy, you say you had the correct filler but you don't say what it is?
From the photo I assume you were trying to weld alloy as the AC switch was on.
Alloy will etch like you say as the heat absorbs into the whole job, then you will be able to form a weld pool, 2 ways around this, pre heat with oxy or just turn the amps up. If you turn the amps up then be prepared to turn it back down again mid weld.
Probaly better to learn with mild steel or stainless to get a feel for it. Probably forget about pulse for learning too, its a bit like learning to adjust the clickers on a modern shock mid race
2T & 4T.....
2T, press switch on & hold on, release to finish weld.
4T, press once to start weld & release, press again to finish.
If you have the 4T on then pressing the switch & holding it on will keep the amps in ramp up mode so it will never reach full amps & may also just etch the job.
Using Argon I assume, you need the argon for the arc to jump properly.
Tungsten needs to be as close as possible to the job without touching, too much distance will reduce the arc power.
Stuff me its' hard to type long posts, I can't look at what I'm typing because the window keeps jumping to the top with every key press, does any one else suffer from this??
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Bahnsy,
Not familiar with your machine but I know on my old Transtig if the ground lead isn't connected or is a poor connection I just get etching of the material with the high frequency without establishing a welding arc.
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Fitter and turner ,work in marine industry
Material is 1.5mm
comments on welds
outside weld has not quite enough amps and I was using 2.5mm filler which is a bit big for the size of plate
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j41/Tento850/DSCF6796.jpg)
inside fillet, A little too many amps and got caught out and stopped then restarted need a bit more pre flow
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j41/Tento850/DSCF6812.jpg)
Noel
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Hi Noel,
Thanks mate.
Ji
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Hi Noel,
Are you left handed?
I see that the fish scale pattern on the open corner weld runs from left to right.
The 2.4mm filler rod did deposit a large bead but that is okay. The larger filler rod helps to cool the job as you weld so on thin metal it is a good idea.
The funny white boarder around the weld is a cleaning etch mark. The AC boils the alloy and all impurities float to the top and away from the bead. I see that the etch mark disappears and turns into a black carbon boarder on the right hand side. Also there is some pepper marks at the end of the bead on the right hand side. This can be avoided by better cleaning and more post gas.
If your electrode is blue after you have finished welding there is not enough post past flow.
On the T fillet weld it does look flat and that is a function of too many amps. The black spots are carbon due to lack of gas. Where the weld has started again near the black spots too many amps have made the bead widen. This is due to the increase of heat as you move along the job. A heat sink can help or if you have a foot control press all the way down to get the puddle formed and then easy back to half throttle. There will still be enough amps for welding but the heat will be reduced. The other way is to stop when the bead starts to widen, let it cool and start again.
Once you get the bead going it runs pretty fast so the heat sink is the way to go on thin jobs for me.
As Noel said keep the filler rod inside the gas shield at all times when welding.
Clean your filler rod before welding just like your plate.
When you stop or release the trigger hold the torch over the weld so the gas can shield the puddle until it hardens. If you do not that is where post pepper is formed.
When you get to the end of your run release the trigger hold the torch in position and keep feeding the filler rod into the puddle. This will fill the crater and prevent pepper.
Ji
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Hi Bahnsy,
How did it go last night.
I guess it went well seeing how we did not hear from you.
Ji
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No Bansy you are fine.
The pilot arc that Firko is talking about is not on your machine.
The arc on your machine is formed when you pull the trigger via the AC setting.
Ji
the AC pilot arc, is useful on Aluminium from memory is it scales the oxide layer before you go to DC.
hey Noel you alloy welding is good or as good as it needs to be for most occasions.
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Hi MarcFX,
Cool, I can learn something here.
How on bahnsy's machine do you set the pilot arc?
I hope I did not upset Firko as that was not my intension.
These new Chinese machines have a whole new bunch of features that were not on the top brands 5 years ago.
Ji
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This is my first attempt at TIG welding steel.
It is a lot easier than aluminium.
I used a Miller Syncrowave 250 that had a gas tap on the torch. Mine has a micro switch that controls everything so this was a bit different.
The brown mark in the T was because I forgot to turn on the gas tap before welding. This unit has HF but we decided to try scratch starts instead for some thing new.
I did not clean this plate before or after welding and you can see the mill scale. This is not a usable weld but just good practise. These welds were performed in DC mode, 90 amps with the job clamp set to negative. Gas was set at 10L/m of flow and 10 seconds of post gas flow. Pulse was turned off. The plate was 3mm think, electrode was 2.4mm diameter gray and we used a 1.6mm diameter filler rod. This filler rod was not matched to the electrode but it was all we had. You certainly had to keep feeding the filler rod in.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/Steel1.jpg)
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This is a series of tac welds laid down by my 14 year old son last night. This was his first attempt at TIG welding, and in fact this was his first attempt at any kind of welding.
Steel is certainly easier than aluminium.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/Steel2.jpg)
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Junior Ji or Kid Gantor in full battle dress ready to show that steel a thing or two.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/Cal1.jpg)
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Last night I practised making a box section from 3mm thick mild steel plate.
The open corner welding joint really suits this construction.
When everything is going well TIG is great to use.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/Box1.jpg)
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Ferrous needs a RED Thoriated electrode for DC welding for best results.ER70S2 or 6 give god results for filler rods.
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We used the gray electrode (ceriated) because the thoriated is radioactive and can damage your lungs when grinding.
Ji
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MUCH more dust comes off the grinding wheel, you actually grind the electrode very little and the thoria is only 1-4% of the electrode .According to THIS (http://www.twi.co.uk/content/faq_thoriated.html) the thorium oxide won't penetrate paper, so a cheap disposable mask is what I'll be wearing in the future
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Hi Lozza,
I think they have done quite a few tests that state that with normal use it will not hurt you. We just decided to use an alternative.
Ji
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Gi - find yourself a bit of S/steel plate and practice fushion welding on it ;) watch the stuff bend and twist out of shape. I'm a red tip man
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Oldfart seeing you ask this question is very sad!! Where is your kiwi give it a go No 8 fencing wire spirit gone?? In case you have for gotten you weld like this First have half a dozen Lion Reds second give it to some one who knows how to weld.....
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Bassa . Tig welding is very similar to oxy welding ;) Gi - hates people hi jacking His threads ;D
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TIG welding is exactly like Oxy welding except no gas just a beam of bright light.
Stainless steel is my next material.
I had some to use the other night but ran out of time.
It was 304 and I had 316 filler rod.
Ji
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My Son Jimmy Sparks tried to TIG weld an open corner on Tuesday night.
Not bad for his first go.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/Cal1-1.jpg)
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I am currently constructing a parcel tray to get the gazebo and spare parts boxes off the bike trailer floor.
I purchased some 6060 T5 aluminium RHS today for the main members.
After doing all the prep work I decided to see how this stuff TIG welds before the main event tomorrow.
With some 3mm scrap and a small piece of the box section I pulled the trigger and it welds real nice.
Looking forward to a day of TIG welding tomorrow.
I did not clean the surfaces which contributed to pepper in the weld, I also pulled the torch away from the last part of the bead and that is why it is a little pourous.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIGAlloy2.jpg)
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I particularly liked your request ji gantor for boiler makers to notify of their tips. One of my boilermakers at work did some aluminium mig welding for me, I asked if he knew if the tip should be a size larger for the welding becasue of the expansion of aluminium and he said don't worry about it. I had to try not to laugh every time he was welding and the wire spooled up because it jammed due to the expansion of the metal. No offence meant to any boiler makers just pointing out that a good tradie is a good tradie regardless of which trade.
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When we go to the track for the weekend we use a Horsepower float to transport the bikes and stuff, but lately the stuff required to make our weekend perfect has started to over flow out and over the tailgate and it is worse now we can transport three bikes in the float.
So I had a great idea, We need a mezzanine floor. Of course Mrs Gantor says she thought of it first.
Anyway this weekend past I fired up the TIG welder for some aluminium welding.
The main joists are 40x25x2.5 RHS 6060 T5.
The flooring is 4.5mm Hwd ply and we covered it with marine carpet.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG7.jpg)
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First we cut the ply so it was the right size and shape, then we tec screwed the aluminium joists to the ply.
This should keep the aluminium members from distorting and going out of square when welded.
The only problem with this design is that you can not weld too close to the ply or it may catch fire.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG9.jpg)
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As I have found out it is one thing to weld up a small aluminium bracket on a bench while seated it is another thing to weld a 1.8m x 1.6m floor frame.
This is the largest TIG welding project I have done by far.
Some times I was sitting on the slab and other times I was on a ladder trying to work the foot controller, very difficult.
But all in all I had no melt downs nor burn throughs.
Some welds when I was sitting on the slab with no room to move or actuate the foot controller came out a bit sad looking but still strong and oxidation free.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG10.jpg)
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Ji you would be 'knackered' without Mrs Gantor to do all the thinking for you ;)
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Aw Lozza don't say that, Mrs Gantor has an account with the forum now and she will read this.
But yes I would be knackered without Mrs G.
Ji
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Hey Ji did you know that tig welding of stainless steel gives off Ozone so you will be doing your bit for the enviroment ;D
Mate you must have a lot of time on your hand to tig weld all that (framework for the float), just make sure you leave the nagg's at home hey? unless they are period nagg's ;)
Who did you buy the aluminium box from? I think you are around Northgate? so try Ullrich Metals and drop my name as I buy a lot of Aluminium from them.
Shane
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With the carpet stapled on and the frame installed the mezzanine floor is ready for loading.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG12-1.jpg)
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The alloy frame looks great.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG13.jpg)
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The carpet is hard to tension but with a little pulling it looks great and should stop things from rolling around.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG14.jpg)
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If you want to increase your compression on your old Bultaco break out the TIG tourch.
Oh yeah you also have to mill the weld down.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG11.jpg)
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Hi Shane,
I purchased the Alloy from Action Aluminium.
They have great stock and are open on Saturdays.
I like TIG welding and when Mrs Gantor lends a helping hand I jump at the chance.
Thanks for your advice.
Keep well.
Ji
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How gets the top bunk? The head looks like it wants lots of help ;D
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Hi Lozza,
Yes that head needs a lot of help.
Who gets the top bunk, well I also designed it so the mezzanine floor can be lowered to just above the handlebars of the bikes and become a bed if required. We may need this next year if the Tri Series takes off.
Ji
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On Sunday we sat back and just looked at the mezzanine floor Mrs G and I and brainstormed about what could go up on top.
List includded,
Gazebo,
50 litres of water for drinking, gerniing bikes and dish washing,
Spare parts boxes,
beds,
chairs,
sleeping bags,
cooking utensiles,
riding gear, boots, helmets....,
clothes,
food.
after all there is 1.15m3 of volume to fill rather than the boot of the four wheel drive.
Ji
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The next thing I have to do is replace the old ply hatch door with 5mm thick Alloy tread plate.
The price of the stuff is what has prevented me from doing it so far as a sheet costs around $280.00.
But if the Tri series does breath life next year I feel the old ply one will be lost somewhere between Brisbane and Sydney.
The Horsepower float already has a 4mm thick Alloy tread plate floor.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG15.jpg)
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The week before Coles Creek I TIG welded up a steel third bike carrier for the Horsepower float.
I wanted to use Alloy but the members would have been to large and also fatigue would have been an issue so steel it are.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG16.jpg)
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We have just purchased a trailer for our Vic trip and other MX events,the Alumina Checker plate on the inside of the tail gate is deadly slippery, :o just a warning in case that's what the eastern staters call alloy tread plate. ;D
The inside walls have small sized mesh attached ,great for handing bits and bobs on 8)
Ji great bike hauler-don't sleep up there on the new shelving or you may have icecaps on places you never knew possible :o ;)
cheers
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Hi VMX247,
Yes the Alloy tread plate is very slippery and that is why we use the rubber matt on top of it.
I am going to replace the ply tailgate as well with 5mm Alloy tread plate but that too will have rubber conveyor belt over the top for grip.
Ji
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The gas saver kit with a see more pyrex cup after two weeks of solid TIG welding.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG17.jpg)
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The pyrex does start to crack and chip on the end. This torch was never dropped. But you can still see through the cup. I now need to rotate the cup so I have a nice clean face to work with.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG18.jpg)
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The third bike carrier was TIG welded.
The steel brackets that hold it to the Horsepower float allow it to hinge out away from the tailgate.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG19.jpg)
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The metal I used was Galzanized. I did grind all the zinc off prior to welding or so I believed.
The zinc vapourises as the heat rises and droplets form on the electrode, very frustrating.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG20-1.jpg)
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I also TIG welded a steel latch for the locking system for the ply hatch.
This allows the lock to be non-locked but secure while travelling.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG21.jpg)
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More aluminium TIG welding.
Tomorrow I have to TIG weld two aluminium brackets that will restrain the cargo on the mezzanine floor while travelling.
The brackets will consist of CHS sockets.
This will be my first time TIG welding tube.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG8.jpg)
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Hi Bahnsy,
How did it go last night.
I guess it went well seeing how we did not hear from you.
Ji
Faark, Double Faark & Tripple Faark. Have all but got to the point of turning the thing into a door stop. Gave up and went and seen a mate of mine, Scott Owen (one of the best SuperCar fabricators going) and had him do it. I'll have another crack soon enough, just need to get my confidence back ;D
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So Bahnsy what happened?
Did you form an arc?
Black soot everywhere?
Or nothing but the pilot arc ticking away?
Ji
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Today I TIG welded the aluminium cargo restraint brackets for the mezzanine floor.
This was my first time welding tube onto a flat plate.
The tube and plate are both 3mm thick 6060 T5.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG24.jpg)
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The thing to remember with alloy tube is to S/S wire brush both plate and tube, extend your electrode past the cup by at least 12mm and aim the most of your heat into the largest member so you don't get a burn through.
When welding a 50mm diameter tube you can only weld about 12mm before you have to stop and rotate the job. Between rotations and start ups give the job another hit with the wire brush just in case there is some carbon or other contamination.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG23.jpg)
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I purchased one of those fold away jockey wheels the other day and thought that they must be easy to install, wrong.
The problem with them is that they have no up and down adjustment from their folded away position.
So today I also started making a bracket that will allow this preliminary height adjustment.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG25.jpg)
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While the TIG welder was out I may as well use it to weld this bracket up.
It also gave me more experience TIG welding tubes.
The bridge plate is 12mm thick and the steel tube has a 2.5mm wall thickness.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG22.jpg)
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With the socket brackets in place it is now time to install the rails.
I saw these telescopic paint roller extensions at Big W and thought that they would make the perfect rails.
They only cost $14.00 each and have a sprung loaded lock.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG28.jpg)
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Time to start packing this new space to see how much we can get in.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG29.jpg)
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Okay the jockey wheel bracket works.
This is what I was looking for.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG30.jpg)
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All the materials used I had hanging around the home.
I Tig welded all the components.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG31.jpg)
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I love TIG welding steel.
The penetration is unreal, and it looks great.
Ji(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG32.jpg)
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Folded away just like I intended.
Even Mrs G likes it, and it was not her idea (I think)
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG33.jpg)
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I also ran a bead at the bottom of the pipe so the whole thing does not slip off if the bolt is loose.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG34.jpg)
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On the weekend I gave TIG welding stainless ago.
Thanks for the knowledge Shane that I am helping the planet.
The plates are 304 1.6mm thick.
I used a 2.4mm thick ceriated electrode with a S/S 1.6mm filler rod.
I turned the heat down to about 45amps.
S/S welds even better than steel.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG35.jpg)
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Stainless needs to have the rear side of the weld shielded otherwise there will be black 'weld boogers' hanging off it. Then there is the passivation/pickling paste to get rid of the brown stuff on top
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try fussing it's even easier Lozza = dragging
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This image is of the inside of the angle I welded together.
There is some filler rod that flowed through.
Ji
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww268/Jigantor1963/TIG36.jpg)
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G'day all ;D
Im a first year sheet metal fabricator/apprentice i've been tig welding now for close to 10 months.I weld alot of 2-6 mm alluminum boat petrol tanks and actual boats on the odd occassion, i weld alot of 0.9-4mm brushed stainless for boat railings and such things and alot of them have to be polished to mirror finish aswell if any 1 needs any help wif that i can help to :D haha . i've found alluminum welding to be the best by far it looks a treat when you can pull of a nice fillet and alluminum being the lightest of metals/alloys besides titanium its one of the best for building stuff for bikes with also :). when welding alluminum one of these badboys will be your best friend.>> (http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg99/Tombailey18/100_1909.jpg) using one of these inox stainless steel on ur usual 5-7 inch grinder u can rip into the alloy surface ur about to weld to open the pores of it and remove any contamination giving you a easy and nice looking weld ;) heres a 3mm mild steel fillet i performed to pass one of my tafe course sections>>(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg99/Tombailey18/100_1905.jpg) and heres a alluminum fillet i performed at work just having a bit of a muck round>> (http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg99/Tombailey18/100_1906-1.jpg)
having a clean surface area to weld is one of the best things you can do to make your welding life easier hope anything i said helped and good luck mate.
Cheers Tom
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Hi Tom,
Great to see your welds, they look terrific.
What type of TIG welder do you use?
What are the settings when you weld aluminium?
Ji
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HERE (http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97936&highlight=marcella) is a fella that must have been taking all your tips in Ji. Glad to see he's kicked on a bit ;D ;D ;D
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Can you please tell him for me to keep trying he will get there eventually.
Very nice work
Ji